Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?

[analog.matt]

wala pa diyan yung mga vintage amps na grabe ganda ng tunog.

masasabi mo na ang amp ay musical instrument talaga kasi kahit same make and model, kahit same vintage. magkaiba ang tunog.

parang yung sinabi ni Analog.Man na super ganda ng tunog ng vintage deluxe reverb ni Jim Weider. personal vintage deluxe reverb eh hindi man lang malapit kung tumunog.

paano pa kaya yung mga modern amps

Yun ang concern ko sir. Most guitar amps are tube buffered or hybrid tube. Parang unfair to say that the tube amp is powerful over the other types unless controlled situations and proper comparison.

Sent from my Nokia 3210 android using tapatim.

yes. the rule of thumb is 1 all tube amp watt is roughly 3 solid state amp watts

so a 15 watt tube amp will scream like a 45 watt solid state amp.

[starkiller]

^^ i love tube amps, but i disagree.

within its clean headroom, 1 watt is 1 watt regardless of the technology.

the reason why people think that tube amp wattage is louder than solid state is that beyond the clean headroom, tube amp saturation is still pleasant to human hearing (parang clean pa), while solid state saturation is not pleasant (buzzy/basag).

because of the above, the volume control range of tube amps are purposefully designed to go beyond the amp's clean headroom (because the post clean sound is still usable).  on the other hand, solid state volume controls are purposefully designed to stay within the clean headroom.

it is the beyond clean headroom range that makes tube amps apparently louder.

[Nelson de Leon]

^^ i love tube amps, but i disagree.

within its clean headroom, 1 watt is 1 watt regardless of the technology.

the reason why people think that tube amp wattage is louder than solid state is that beyond the clean headroom, tube amp saturation is still pleasant to human hearing (parang clean pa), while solid state saturation is not pleasant (buzzy/basag).

because of the above, the volume control range of tube amps are purposefully designed to go beyond the amp's clean headroom (because the post clean sound is still usable).  on the other hand, solid state volume controls are purposefully designed to stay within the clean headroom.

it is the beyond clean headroom range that makes tube amps apparently louder.

Weel saif. the distortion of tube amps are pleasurable to the ears kasi.

[analog.matt]

^^ i love tube amps, but i disagree.

within its clean headroom, 1 watt is 1 watt regardless of the technology.

the reason why people think that tube amp wattage is louder than solid state is that beyond the clean headroom, tube amp saturation is still pleasant to human hearing (parang clean pa), while solid state saturation is not pleasant (buzzy/basag).

because of the above, the volume control range of tube amps are purposefully designed to go beyond the amp's clean headroom (because the post clean sound is still usable).  on the other hand, solid state volume controls are purposefully designed to stay within the clean headroom.

it is the beyond clean headroom range that makes tube amps apparently louder.

if you've read clearly, ang sabi ko naman "rule of thumb." (A means of estimation made according to a rough and ready practical rule, not based on science or exact measurement. )

whatever it is, its louder.

and i prefer my old amp over modern ones.

since there's more pleasure, then tube amps sound better.

[24Fret]

Blackstar ID series solid state that emulates the sound of 6L6, 6V6, EL34, EL84, KT66 and KT88's
Real happy with the sound.

Hmmm very interesting. Sir would you kindly rate it from 0 to 100 on how much it realistically emulates tube response? 

[starkiller]

analog.matt, not worries, i'm not attacking your preferences.  i'm not trying to be overly scientific, nor trying to scrutinize your thoughts. 

allow me to explain where i'm coming from:

i said what i said because i wanted to qualify that if the musician wants clean, and not overdriven sounds, tubes and solid state power will have the same loudness output.   

use case:  there are some applications (Ex: jazz, acoustic) that require a very clean output... much cleaner than the "clean" of a blues/rock player.  for these applications, you really need a good amount of clean watts regardless of technology.

i hope this sorts things out.  i'm just not a big fan of proclaiming that something is better without qualifying the application.





 

[karlwilson]

well, i think so thread starter... 

[Nelson de Leon]

analog.matt, not worries, i'm not attacking your preferences.  i'm not trying to be overly scientific, nor trying to scrutinize your thoughts. 

allow me to explain where i'm coming from:

i said what i said because i wanted to qualify that if the musician wants clean, and not overdriven sounds, tubes and solid state power will have the same loudness output.   

use case:  there are some applications (Ex: jazz, acoustic) that require a very clean output... much cleaner than the "clean" of a blues/rock player.  for these applications, you really need a good amount of clean watts regardless of technology.

i hope this sorts things out.  i'm just not a big fan of proclaiming that something is better without qualifying the application.

Very nice insights. I think you are not attacking his preferences. Neither is he (from my point of view). We are merely discussing the facts with hopes of clearing things up. I'm also a tube lover myself. And I agree with you na tubes sound wonderful.

However, allow me also to clarify matters. A hybrid tube (usually tube as preamp) is not per se, really a tube amp. Neither are tube buffered amps. Hence, some people (not knowing this principle) think that hybrids are tube amps, and tend to think that tube amps is louder or more powerful. Both tubes and solid state have their own merits.

Sent from my Nokia 3210 android using tapatim.

[royc]

Yun ang concern ko sir. Most guitar amps are tube buffered or hybrid tube. Parang unfair to say that the tube amp is powerful over the other types unless controlled situations and proper comparison.

Sent from my Nokia 3210 android using tapatim.

The Fender Greta is a real tube amp.

[royc]

i said what i said because i wanted to qualify that if the musician wants clean, and not overdriven sounds, tubes and solid state power will have the same loudness output.   

True, except that tube amps are desired for their cranked and near breakup tones. For clean tones at any volume, I do not need a tube amp.

[phoenix_rising]

Hmmm very interesting. Sir would you kindly rate it from 0 to 100 on how much it realistically emulates tube response? 

Well i have a friend who was really into bowteek amps, expensive ones, i let him try my amp, i asked what he thought about it. He's test was the KT66 or KT88 tubes (expensive tubes in real life) He was tinkering with the amp and said, that's the character of the tubes, i know that sound.

For me naman, I always thought i was an EL84 or EL34 guitar player because that's what i've been hearing from a lot of guitar player, EL84's are the best tubes, didn't have a choice and just took their word for it for years, since i used the Blackstar ID series amp, i realized i was more on the 6L6 tubes.

[Taoistguitarist]

well, i think so thread starter... 

I got to try one of these a few years ago. Very nice cleans on that one!

[Taoistguitarist]

^^ i love tube amps, but i disagree.

within its clean headroom, 1 watt is 1 watt regardless of the technology.

the reason why people think that tube amp wattage is louder than solid state is that beyond the clean headroom, tube amp saturation is still pleasant to human hearing (parang clean pa), while solid state saturation is not pleasant (buzzy/basag).

because of the above, the volume control range of tube amps are purposefully designed to go beyond the amp's clean headroom (because the post clean sound is still usable).  on the other hand, solid state volume controls are purposefully designed to stay within the clean headroom.

it is the beyond clean headroom range that makes tube amps apparently louder.

Hmm interesting. There's this jamming place where i brought a tube amp( Laney LC50) a couple of times. I loved the way it handled the clean tone as well as the overdrive from a my pedals. The venue is quite small that i my amp volume is only at 3.   

 In the same venue there was a  Roland Jazz Chorus( JC120 i think) amp which is quite well known for it's clean tone. So i decided to plug there to hear the difference.  To me it sounded stiff and the drive pedals sounded a bit buzzier compared to the tube amp. 

So i guess the that's the solid state  vs  the tube saturation going on.  Parang mas gusto ko yung lagkit ba ng cleans ng tube amp? Parang mas may chime. 

A few months ago a friend lent me a JC120 that i used for about a week at home. At very low volumes, medyo similar sounding yung clean tone nila. But once i stepped on an overdrive doon ko nahalata yung difference.   

[spankyrigor]

Probably because of the speaker count. But if it sounded better, then those are the amp design and toobs \m/

It's not the speaker count. More speakers might make your sound "bigger" but not louder if that makes any sense.

Also I find the Marshall MG can get pretty thin and easily lost in a band setting.

[spankyrigor]

The Fender Greta is a real tube amp.

And (I had to do a search to find the specs) Single Ended.

[chazkidlat]

different sounds> parang cf martin vs taylor. single coil vs humbuckers

pero cguro 10 yrs from now kaya na mag copy ng digital or hightech analog SS amps ang tube amp (sana)

[firemodel55]

different sounds> parang cf martin vs taylor. single coil vs humbuckers

pero cguro 10 yrs from now kaya na mag copy ng digital or hightech analog SS amps ang tube amp (sana)

For guitar, I have to disagree.  Its between better (tube amps) and inferior (solid state amps).  Walang say ang magandang solid state sa magandang tube.

[chazkidlat]

For guitar, I have to disagree.  Its between better (tube amps) and inferior (solid state amps).  Walang say ang magandang solid state sa magandang tube.

oo naman. tube amps talaga ang best tone. pero dipende rin sa gagamit i think>? dipende sa tone na hanap nya? or sa genre?

pero naimagine nyo ano kaya?::::
"pero cguro 10 yrs from now kaya na mag copy ng digital or hightech analog SS amps ang tube amp (sana)"

possible? or 20yrs from now? sana...

[24Fret]

Ako naman tumigil na  sa pagsamba ng tube amp nung marinig ko ang Kemper Profiling Amp.

[firemodel55]

oo naman. tube amps talaga ang best tone. pero dipende rin sa gagamit i think>? dipende sa tone na hanap nya? or sa genre?

pero naimagine nyo ano kaya?::::
"pero cguro 10 yrs from now kaya na mag copy ng digital or hightech analog SS amps ang tube amp (sana)"

possible? or 20yrs from now? sana...

Well I have been around since the first amp modeling hardware came out in the 90s.  Ang Guess what?  Its 2014.  And the amps that are breaking ground are tube.

[firemodel55]

Ako naman tumigil na  sa pagsamba ng tube amp nung marinig ko ang Kemper Profiling Amp.

Just curious, have you heard/plugged into a Kemper Profiling Amp live?

[MYN11]

different sounds> parang cf martin vs taylor. single coil vs humbuckers

pero cguro 10 yrs from now kaya na mag copy ng digital or hightech analog SS amps ang tube amp (sana)

Nagawa na yan ng AxeFx. And it really does sound good!

[24Fret]

Just curious, have you heard/plugged into a Kemper Profiling Amp live?

dun ko sya unang narinig..

[chrizzysixx]

Hi kumpanyeros! Any reviews for the Ibanez TSA series all tube amps? thanks!!

[tam_guitar]

Been playing solid state for 5 years then moved to tube amps...
It is way better, Im never going back so. YES!