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Author Topic: DIY Acoustics and Soundproofing Thread  (Read 129370 times)

Offline rad_12

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Re: DIY Acoustics and Soundproofing Thread
« Reply #100 on: April 19, 2008, 02:25:48 PM »
thank your sir for the added info.   :-)

Offline mikep

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Re: DIY Acoustics and Soundproofing Thread
« Reply #101 on: April 19, 2008, 03:33:43 PM »
Bakit nga ba pala gypsum ang ginagamit imbis na plywood? alin ang mas mahal? at mas mabigat?

Gypsum kasi is not as resonant as plywood; kinda inert, thus, better in terms of controlling sound colorations in the room.  That is why they use gypsum as wall and ceiling panelling a lot.  Doubling the wall with gypsum give out a very good STC rating.  Furthermore, they are cheaper than plywood.  The price of a 1/2" gypsum is about half the price of plywood of the same thickness.  Ano ang mas mabigat?  Plywood yata (not sure).

FWIW
www.facebook.com/TRACKSAcoustics/Studios
guitars: gretsch 6122-1962; rickenbacker 330; epi elite casinos; gibson les paul standards, tribute, faded, double cut; gibson sg standards, faded; fender strats MIAs, MIJs, MIMs; fender tele MIAs, MIJs, MIMs; etc

Offline in_the_tent

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Re: DIY Acoustics and Soundproofing Thread
« Reply #102 on: April 20, 2008, 09:22:15 PM »
I see. Thanks so much po Mr. Pedero.:)
"The Lord is my Song.."

Offline in_the_tent

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Re: DIY Acoustics and Soundproofing Thread
« Reply #103 on: April 28, 2008, 11:18:56 PM »
question lang po.. ano gagawin nyo kapag me isang window lang ang isang room at yung part nun eh lalagyan nyo ng aircon. paano nyo isasoundproof yung remaining area ng window?
thanks.:)
"The Lord is my Song.."

Offline mikep

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Re: DIY Acoustics and Soundproofing Thread
« Reply #104 on: April 29, 2008, 02:41:46 PM »
ano gagawin nyo kapag me isang window lang ang isang room at yung part nun eh lalagyan nyo ng aircon. paano nyo isasoundproof yung remaining area ng window?

Pag-window type ang air con mo, sayang lang ang pag-soundproof, kasi yung window type air con may mga butas,  So, maski na i-soundproof mo yung room, your air con will now be the source of unwanted noise from the outside.  Sayang lang pera mo.  Better to get a split type, mas mahal but better soundproofing wise.

FWIW
www.facebook.com/TRACKSAcoustics/Studios
guitars: gretsch 6122-1962; rickenbacker 330; epi elite casinos; gibson les paul standards, tribute, faded, double cut; gibson sg standards, faded; fender strats MIAs, MIJs, MIMs; fender tele MIAs, MIJs, MIMs; etc


Offline in_the_tent

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Re: DIY Acoustics and Soundproofing Thread
« Reply #105 on: April 30, 2008, 02:31:09 AM »
I see.. Thanks.:)
"The Lord is my Song.."

Offline peeves24

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Re: DIY Acoustics and Soundproofing Thread
« Reply #106 on: April 30, 2008, 03:31:41 PM »
questions questions questions... :-D

ilang decibels ba ang normal na naririnig mo sa rehearsal studio or sa bar?

im trying to determine how much soundproofing i would need. i'll hire experts to do the construction but i just want to do some research to make an informed decision.

i looked at this chart and saw that normal background noise in residential areas is somewhere between 30 to 50db

http://home.new.rr.com/trumpetb/audio/dBexamp.html

assuming bands generate an average of 120db noise. my target is to get at least a minimum noise level of 50db


now lets go to the available wall designs based on this site

http://www.saecollege.de/reference_material/index.html

am i correct to assume that the STC rating is the amount of db that a wall can isolate?

let's say i'll go for steel studs with 3 layers of plasterboard with insulation for the walls. the site indicates that i would get an STC rating of 64 so does that mean that it will bring down the 120db noise to 56db?

what about the ceiling? what if my ceiling is designed for STC 49? does that add up to the STC rating of the wall e.g. 120-(49+64) = 7db isolation?

Offline mikep

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Re: DIY Acoustics and Soundproofing Thread
« Reply #107 on: April 30, 2008, 06:06:59 PM »
Normally, you should only be generating from 85 to 95 dBA in the studio, otherwise you are doing it too loud.  120 dBA is threshold of pain.

let's say i'll go for steel studs with 3 layers of plasterboard with insulation for the walls. the site indicates that i would get an STC rating of 64 so does that mean that it will bring down the 120db noise to 56db?

About.

what about the ceiling? what if my ceiling is designed for STC 49? does that add up to the STC rating of the wall e.g. 120-(49+64) = 7db isolation?

120-49 would be your ceiling's isolation characteristic.  Your studio will be generating much noise at 120 dBA.  But since you maintain a lower SPL inside the studio, your generated noise level could be acceptable.  For explanation purposes, if your walls have an STC of 64, your ceiling should have the same STC number.  Your effective isolation number will be 56 dBA.

FWIW
www.facebook.com/TRACKSAcoustics/Studios
guitars: gretsch 6122-1962; rickenbacker 330; epi elite casinos; gibson les paul standards, tribute, faded, double cut; gibson sg standards, faded; fender strats MIAs, MIJs, MIMs; fender tele MIAs, MIJs, MIMs; etc

Offline peeves24

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Re: DIY Acoustics and Soundproofing Thread
« Reply #108 on: May 02, 2008, 08:38:04 AM »
thanks sir mike!

Offline in_the_tent

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Re: DIY Acoustics and Soundproofing Thread
« Reply #109 on: May 02, 2008, 10:31:34 PM »
how do you soundproof a window? sasarahan po ba? paano po kaya? not sure kung natackle na po ito..
"The Lord is my Song.."

LouieAzcona

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Re: DIY Acoustics and Soundproofing Thread
« Reply #110 on: May 02, 2008, 11:13:27 PM »
pano kung puro glass po lahat ng walls ng studio? soundproof na po ba yon?

as in glass na kamuka ng nasa 7-11, ministop, mcdo. mga ganon.

fiber glass po un diba?

Offline skunkyfunk

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Re: DIY Acoustics and Soundproofing Thread
« Reply #111 on: May 14, 2008, 09:38:39 PM »
Just a question.  How many of you use Carrying Channels or Double Furrings mounted to frames of metal studs and tracks to carry a the drywall (gypsum board) instead of simply mounting the drywall to the metal studs and use double-sided tape in between the studs and the drywall?

Thing is, I recommend using carrying channels on top of the standard metal studs/tracks to a certain person who wants his room soundproofed.  Of course, that would mean more stud mounts for the carrying channels or furrings. I just haven't compared side by side if mounting the drywall on the studs would suffice.

We wanna avoid flanking and as such, we want a more "detached" wall.

Sir Mike can you help?

Offline mikep

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Re: DIY Acoustics and Soundproofing Thread
« Reply #112 on: May 14, 2008, 10:27:29 PM »
I am not sure of what you are referring to, but it seems you are talking about resilient strips - sort of metal strips that you place between two gypsum wall boards which provide some isolation to one layer of gypsum from the main gypsum wall.  These are effective as they also provide differences in the resonance frequencies of the two wall boards.  However, there are other ways of achieving  good isolation. 1)  Increasing the weight of the wall by adding layers of gypsum boards; 2) wider spacing of leaves or bigger air gaps between the wall boards; 3) use of staggered studs; 4) adding insulation blankets in between the wall boards, inside the cavity; and 5) caulking the perimeters with non hardening compound.  Doing all of these or a combination will result to good isolation.

Flanking happens when your joints are not properly sealed.  As long as there are no holes where sound can pass, your soundproofing will be okay.

FWIW
www.facebook.com/TRACKSAcoustics/Studios
guitars: gretsch 6122-1962; rickenbacker 330; epi elite casinos; gibson les paul standards, tribute, faded, double cut; gibson sg standards, faded; fender strats MIAs, MIJs, MIMs; fender tele MIAs, MIJs, MIMs; etc

Offline skunkyfunk

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Re: DIY Acoustics and Soundproofing Thread
« Reply #113 on: May 14, 2008, 11:09:40 PM »
I am not sure of what you are referring to, but it seems you are talking about resilient strips - sort of metal strips that you place between two gypsum wall boards which provide some isolation to one layer of gypsum from the main gypsum wall.  These are effective as they also provide differences in the resonance frequencies of the two wall boards.  However, there are other ways of achieving  good isolation. 1)  Increasing the weight of the wall by adding layers of gypsum boards; 2) wider spacing of leaves or bigger air gaps between the wall boards; 3) use of staggered studs; 4) adding insulation blankets in between the wall boards, inside the cavity; and 5) caulking the perimeters with non hardening compound.  Doing all of these or a combination will result to good isolation.

Flanking happens when your joints are not properly sealed.  As long as there are no holes where sound can pass, your soundproofing will be okay.

FWIW

Many, many thanks sir mike!  Whew... A lot also recommend staggering the studs but that means, more gastos hehehe. 

Offline mikep

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Re: DIY Acoustics and Soundproofing Thread
« Reply #114 on: May 15, 2008, 03:46:38 AM »
I hope I was able to help.  Regards,
www.facebook.com/TRACKSAcoustics/Studios
guitars: gretsch 6122-1962; rickenbacker 330; epi elite casinos; gibson les paul standards, tribute, faded, double cut; gibson sg standards, faded; fender strats MIAs, MIJs, MIMs; fender tele MIAs, MIJs, MIMs; etc

Offline botbenz

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Re: DIY Acoustics and Soundproofing Thread
« Reply #115 on: May 17, 2008, 03:48:43 PM »
Hey, folks. I am new to this forum, but not to Philmusic per se. I am delighted to find this thread, which should come in handy as I build a personal project studio at home.

I am even more thrilled to learn from the masters, like MikeP. He is as legit and pro as they come. I should know because in the 90s, when Jim was just starting PhilMusic out of his ADB free time, I was a DJ for a radio station that MikeP co-founded (CityLite 88.3). That said, of course, he designed its on-air booth, where I went on the air for a good five years, and enjoyed every bit of it.

The last few weeks, I've been researching (you should too) about studio design. There are a ton of stuff on the Net. Of course, I bought a couple of books from the masters, Philip Newell, and F. Alton Everest, to name a few.

Like many of you, I am new to studio design/retrofitting. But already, I have much to share. For starters, here's my project studio, which I designed using BeLight's Live Interior 3D software, and lots of 3D object models from Google's 3D Warehouse:

http://www.textraextra.com/textra/images/LawnView.jpg
http://www.textraextra.com/textra/images/FarLeftCornerView.jpg
http://www.textraextra.com/textra/images/FarRightCornerView.jpg

But don't be fooled. This is just the interior design. I am a long way from being able to afford this.  :-( But I can dream, can't I?

Of course, I have also gone deeper, beyond the looks and into the actual science of acoustics. Needless to say, I'm still a newbie, not like MikeP & Co. But if I am going to spend hard-earned money, I want to do it right, don't you? Anyway, I hope to share my newbie learnings along the way. And I hope to post the progress of "my new baby" on this forum, with pics and decision considerations.

For now, let me chime in on a recent post about furring channels. I, too, have been trying to source resilient channels here in Manila, but could not find them; not on the Net; not in Home Depot or Wilcon. The closest I got were these http://www.jeasteel.com.ph/cgi-bin/products/product_detail.asp?parent_id=2, hat-type furring channels. They look usable, but the hat was 1.5 to 2 inches deep, which meant it'll eat up more of my studio's interior space/floor area. Alternatively, I may just go with double dry walls, bonded together using Green Glue.

Like I said, there is much to share; too much, in fact, for one post. Stay tuned! ;)




Offline fybergear@maker

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Re: DIY Acoustics and Soundproofing Thread
« Reply #116 on: May 23, 2008, 07:41:40 PM »
marami ako natutunan sa thread na ito. kung na sounproofed at na sealed na totally ang studio, paano naman ang fresh air circulation? kahit naka split type aircon na, kelangan pa rin siguro ng circulating fresh air galing sa labas para makahinga ng maayos sa loob ng studio? paano po ba malalagyan ng air ventilation na hindi maapektuhan ang soundproofing ng room? for recording purposes kasi ang studio. tabing highway ang pwesto kaya maingay sa labas. salamat po..

Offline botbenz

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Re: DIY Acoustics and Soundproofing Thread
« Reply #117 on: May 24, 2008, 02:34:26 PM »
paano naman ang fresh air circulation?

best a/c is via HVAC (heating, ventilation, air conditioning) systems. if your studio is in a commercial building with centralized air conditioning, then your studio likely has HVAC. ask your building administrator.

there are HVAC systems for homes in the US, but understandably expensive. are there small HVAC systems in the philippines? if so, what's the minimum power configuration, in BTUs or HPs?

if HVAC is not a viable option, split-type a/c is your next best bet, because at least the compressor can be put some distance away, further isolating the compressor's noise (especially the low frequency ones) and structural vibration.

so the question now is "which split type a/c can you guys recommend?" and "how did you soundproof or seal the a/c tubes/pipes?" thanks.


Offline mikep

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Re: DIY Acoustics and Soundproofing Thread
« Reply #118 on: May 25, 2008, 03:39:57 AM »
You duct the air conditioning, with supply and return paths.  Make sure the ducts are fully insulated inside and out.  Design the air flow to be at least about 350 feet per minute.  The air flow should be felt and not be heard.

BTW, there are ducted air con systems available locally but a little expensive.  Call the air con manufacturers.

FWIW
www.facebook.com/TRACKSAcoustics/Studios
guitars: gretsch 6122-1962; rickenbacker 330; epi elite casinos; gibson les paul standards, tribute, faded, double cut; gibson sg standards, faded; fender strats MIAs, MIJs, MIMs; fender tele MIAs, MIJs, MIMs; etc

Offline pizarro84

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Re: DIY Acoustics and Soundproofing Thread
« Reply #119 on: May 29, 2008, 08:27:38 AM »
Good morning po  :-) tanong lang po ako ng inexpensive materials to kill the resonance (bedroom po) kasi pag nagse-set po ako ng effects pag dating sa labas iba na tunog dahil po sa resonance ng guitar amp sa kwarto ko. The room is 8' wide by 17' long and 10' high. Thanks po  :-)

Offline botbenz

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Re: DIY Acoustics and Soundproofing Thread
« Reply #120 on: June 01, 2008, 07:11:06 PM »
tanong lang po ako ng inexpensive materials to kill the resonance (bedroom po) kasi pag nagse-set po ako ng effects pag dating sa labas iba na tunog dahil po sa resonance ng guitar amp sa kwarto ko. The room is 8' wide by 17' long and 10' high.

@pizarro84: I am not sure I understand your objective. Do you want to reduce resonance or reduce sound transmission? What kind of sound are you looking for pag dating sa labas?

I am an amateur in these matters, unlike MikeP who is a pro's pro. But allow me to share the little that I have learned:
1) Your room dimensions, especially if you have parallel surfaces (wall-wall, ceiling-floor), will tend to boost certain frequencies.
2) The materials that "soundproof" your room have different resonating frequencies. Generally speaking, the more mass the lower the resonating frequency.

Do you want to reduce the sound leaking out of the room, or do you want to keep the room from shaking/vibrating with the sound, or both?

Offline botbenz

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Re: DIY Acoustics and Soundproofing Thread
« Reply #121 on: June 01, 2008, 07:49:06 PM »
I am converting a "garage" into a den/studio--not a recording studio per se. I just want a quiet room (my sanity room from all the city noise) that can double as a short term guest room once or twice a year. But I do want it to be quiet enough that I have the option of occasionally recording a vocalist or instrumentalist. Think of it as a quasi-control room with a sleepable couch. ;)

My biggest design concern now relates to the window. Using an old Nokia phone with a sound meter, I measured the sound levels outside the garage. The curb-side noise level hovered in the 70-80db range during the day, but occasionally peaked at low 90s when village tricycles zoomed by. That is not an issue because I will replace the garage door with an 8" solid concrete wall. But the noise at the lawn-side of the garage, where the window is, hovered in the 60s and occasionally peaked at 76db. Question is: What kind of window treatment would you suggest, assuming a window opening that is 8 feet wide, and 4 feet high?

No, getting rid of the window opening is not an option. This is my den/occasional guest room, not a commercial recording studio, and certainly not an unsightly bodega. I love natural light. The more the merrier. But unfortunately, the more light I let in, the more expensive it also becomes to soundproof. So I am settling for a compromise of 8'x4' window.

Will a 10mm plain glass on a 6" solid concrete wall, plus laminated glass on an isolated interior wall (drywall/staggered studs/rockwool/drywall) be "enough"? What would the effective STC of this combo be, assuming a 6" separation between the two glass panes? Even a rough estimate will do, give or take 5db.

And does anybody know how much 4'x'8' laminated glass cost? If you can post a supplier, that would help too.

Thanks!
« Last Edit: June 01, 2008, 08:55:47 PM by botbenz »

Offline pizarro84

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Re: DIY Acoustics and Soundproofing Thread
« Reply #122 on: June 02, 2008, 02:16:15 AM »
@pizarro84: I am not sure I understand your objective. Do you want to reduce resonance or reduce sound transmission? What kind of sound are you looking for pag dating sa labas?

I am an amateur in these matters, unlike MikeP who is a pro's pro. But allow me to share the little that I have learned:
1) Your room dimensions, especially if you have parallel surfaces (wall-wall, ceiling-floor), will tend to boost certain frequencies.
2) The materials that "soundproof" your room have different resonating frequencies. Generally speaking, the more mass the lower the resonating frequency.

Do you want to reduce the sound leaking out of the room, or do you want to keep the room from shaking/vibrating with the sound, or both?


Thanks for the response, I would like to keep the room from shaking/vibrating with the sound. By the way my ceiling is made of thin plywood sheet. I am interested with affordable materials that can attenuate the resonating frequencies in my room, those commonly used in entry level studios.

Offline botbenz

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Re: DIY Acoustics and Soundproofing Thread
« Reply #123 on: June 02, 2008, 03:22:01 AM »
Thanks for the response, I would like to keep the room from shaking/vibrating with the sound. By the way my ceiling is made of thin plywood sheet. I am interested with affordable materials that can attenuate the resonating frequencies in my room, those commonly used in entry level studios.
A popular (probably because it is cost-effective, widely available, relatively light and has better soundproofing characteristics than plywood) material is drywall (aka gypsum board, plasterboard, SheetRock, et al), which sells for around P300 per 4'x8' panel/sheet. Some people use several layers of drywall, often using different thicknesses per layer so as not to compound resonance frequencies.

Most people, I suppose, screw one board over another. But in your case, it would help to spot your wall/ceiling's studs, without peeling off the old/existing surfaces. In other words, it's better to screw the drywall onto a stud than onto a thin plywood that has no underlayer. Alternatively, you can glue one drywall on an existing flat surface, although I do not know what locally available adhesives the pros recommend. I intend to use Green Glue, which I have to import in balikbayan boxes. :( But I guess glue is still cheaper than spending for MLV (mass-loaded vinyl) or going with pricey and heavy fiber-cement boards like Hardiflex.

Hope this helps somewhat. And good luck with the build!

Offline pizarro84

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Re: DIY Acoustics and Soundproofing Thread
« Reply #124 on: June 02, 2008, 11:43:35 AM »
^^ Thanks very much botbenz!!  anyway is this available locally? where can I purchase one?