hulika

Author Topic: Boutique Pedal Review: Matchless Hot Box -- Not for the financially challenged  (Read 74454 times)

Offline deltaslim

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
Re: Boutique Pedal Review: Matchless Hot Box -- Not for the financially challeng
« Reply #175 on: December 03, 2006, 06:13:34 PM »
Deltaslim,

So, anong effect ng Brimar 12at7 versus the stock Sovtek 12ax7 sa tunog ng Matchless ko given your experience, wealth of knowledge and US$4,000 worth of tubes?  You better be specific because the Brimar is already installed.  You claim its the circuit that you don't like about the Hot Box, so what has the Brimar done to the circuit? Describe to me the sound of my Hot Box now with the Brimar?

Wala akong intent to be a tone messiah.  Bansag mo iyan sa akin. Since you had collected many tubes, ano na pala ang tube amp mo ngayon?  Maybe I will just call you the tube messiah.

My point is since the last time you gave your RJ guitar to your nephew, you have never bought yourself another RJ guitar despite your good experience with it. Why is that?  Ginamit mo na nga sa commercial recording di ba? 





OMG!  I swear you just copy-pasted your previous post!  That's cheating... that's like plagiarizing yourself, if that's at all possible!!   :-D

Hey, i'll do you a favor. If your Hot Box came w/ stock tubes... they would have likely have been 12AX7WXT+s...  the worst Sovtek ax7 possible, IMO and of many others...  even changing them for Sovtek LPS would have made a significant change.  Changing them to 12at7s are the obvious mod for the Box's ills.  But like I said, I have a pretty good guess of how it will have changed the tone.  And it still wouldn't have been enough for me to like it. 

Btw, I had an opportunity to buy that or a Klon Centaur.  Guess what -- I chose the one trick pony.  ;-)
« Last Edit: December 14, 2006, 03:08:59 PM by deltaslim »

Offline deltaslim

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
Re: Boutique Pedal Review: Matchless Hot Box -- Not for the financially challeng
« Reply #176 on: December 03, 2006, 06:25:00 PM »
...  is all the trouble worth the tone?

Only you can answer that, and the answers will all be different given one’s particular circumstances and tolerance for pain.

Anong sabi ni deltaslim noon? – “….kanya kanya lang ‘yun….” Hehehe.  :-D


But, BB, you don't understand.... Highlander yang si Oas e... For him, "there can only be one!"   :-D

Offline deltaslim

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
Re: Boutique Pedal Review: Matchless Hot Box -- Not for the financially challeng
« Reply #177 on: December 03, 2006, 06:35:29 PM »
ang tindi ni pareng Joric.. bluesman nga sya pero kung makipag-away, METAL! hupaw huhupaw! :lol:

ahehehe! Oo nga, atapang-atao! :-D

Yan ang schoolmate!
"Manalo, matalo, Bugbog kayo!" - Notre DAme vs. PCHS '92 NMMAA Basketball Championship :-D

Uy kmusta Mike! Pre, nung batch namin, mga taga-Kalookan High karambulan namin!  Rakenrol!!

Offline blue buddha

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
Re: Boutique Pedal Review: Matchless Hot Box -- Not for the financially challeng
« Reply #178 on: December 03, 2006, 07:04:50 PM »
How long did you own your amps before you changed the tubes? How long have you owned your guitars before you changed your pickups? How long have you had your car before you changed your tires?

Longer than day 1 I suppose. That's because they work just right for the item. Will you change your tire after buying your car brand new? Do you see ferraris with ordinary tires?

The hot box is supposed to offer a signature sound. You can't offer that if you're expecting your consumers to change a part right away. They can and will probably change the tubes, but normally, after they have used the item extensively and just want's to experiment.

When you're offering a boutique item, you're not offering it for cheap. They're boutique! It is expected of them to be expensive.

Whups, mis-posted. Let me try again.

When I was a newbie a very long time ago  :-P the tubes that came with the amps I bought stayed in for a good long while before they were changed. In the last 15 years, however, I can't think of a stock amp I've bought that didn't get an immediate tube change within 2 hours of my buying the thing. Just as an example: There was a Matchless Brave (40w, 1x12, 2-EL34's, 3-12ax7's, 1-5ar4) that apparently sat in a store called Soundsgood Music in Greenhills for many years. The darn thing cost so much and sounded just average to some people, that no one would touch it with a 10-foot pole. When I came upon it, inspected it, and tested it in-store, I talked the folks down to a decent price level and they were only too happy to have someone take it off their hands.... finally.

The second I got home, out went the Chinese Ruby Tubes 5ar4, the Mesa-branded Russian EL 34's, and the russian 12ax7's -- in went all NOS Mullards in every tube socket. I gigged that amp moderately  for about 5 years, and finally changed out the Mullard EL34's for a pair of Siemens earlier this year. The Mullard rectifier and 12ax7's (except for one that died about a month ago) are still the same ones from almost 6 years ago. Have been very happy with it all the way. Still gigging the amp 1 or 2 times a week at stage levels these days. No problems at all.

Following the same logic, a lot of people pass up the usual panasonic or "ibanez" branded alkaline batteries that came with their new expensive TS808 re-issue tubescreamers in favor of Energizers or Duracells.

They don't even sell highend Tennis rackets pre-strung. You have to choose your preferred string and specify the tension.

Re: Ferraris, the factory will stick in good production tires from whatever tire company they are able to swing a supply deal with for a good price. They will be excellent tires that are several notches up from the run-of-the-mill models other makers put on their cars, but they will not necessarily be the most technically advanced, best built tire ever available on the market in absolute terms -- the kind made up of special stuff used by formula 1 cars for the Indy 500 -- specially formulated, constructed, selected, inspected, tested, and , etc. where money, glory and fame are on the line. Doing that will make the car's sticker price absolutely outrageous. And so many new anal Ferrari (Porsche, Maserati, Fill in Hot-car-name-here) owners opt to upgrade their tires too with whatever Pirelli, Michelin, Fill-in-other-high-end-tiremakers-names-here makes that outspecs the original tire. They may do this at a later date because it isn't as simple a swap as what one can do in the comfort of your living room.  :-D

The point is, the original tubes have their own character which some folks think is ok. No problem for them. The tubes do work and there's technically nothing wrong with them. Interesting thing with some of these amps/pedals is that although there is the promise of a signature response, it will actually be very different with any combination of guitars, amps, and other gear in the signal chain. So there really isn't one "correct" result. The best results for you is actually an outgrowth of choices you make in the consumables and other stuff you attach to it. At the end of the day, no sense in making such a subjective choice for you when it would likely add another $100 to the pedal's selling price. With something like this, it just makes sense to go generic.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2006, 08:20:03 PM by blue buddha »

Offline aya_yuson

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
i don't see why anyone should let Alex get under their skin.

Twenty years from now, who'll people remember? The good players or the spoiled li'l rich kids?
<3 Love is the absence of fear. Fear none. Love all. <3


Offline Al_Librero

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
Re: Boutique Pedal Review: Matchless Hot Box -- Not for the financially challeng
« Reply #180 on: December 03, 2006, 08:01:15 PM »
Nice piece of wisdom there. But actually, it IS important for at least one person to get ticked off, because:

1. People, especially newer members, might start believing him wholeheartedly, and
2. It wouldn't be fun, otherwise. 

:evil: :evil: :evil:
Trashcan of Thoughts - http://www.allibrero.com

Offline farseer

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
Re: Boutique Pedal Review: Matchless Hot Box -- Not for the financially challeng
« Reply #181 on: December 03, 2006, 09:33:24 PM »
so what? i bet you got this pedal to again tell us how filthy f*in rich you are. if you wish to show us how rich you are, get all of us together and give us all money. after this review, what do you want us to do? your reviews are eloquent but incomplete without soundclips. other than that, cheers mf.

oy oy easy lang meng.. review lang naman yun e. medyo mahal talaga ang $400 para sa isang pedal for the common Filipino kaya not for the financially challenged talaga. kasi sometimes people tend to become impulsive buyers because of reviews, etc. kaya warning lang yun na you should be sure na gusto mo yun otherwise you'll just throw away $400. enough of the oas-bashing na sana tayo dito, he did point out some good points of the pedal naman so we all learned a bit more :)

+ :-) :-) :-)

Offline oasgomez-is-banned

  • Forum Fanatic
  • ****
Glassjaw,

If I find a good sounding guitar, the day after I buy it,  it immediately goes to Arie for refinishing based on what I want it to look.  Pickups are immediately removed and Bareknuckles replacements are ordered.  Nut is also immediately replaced with Mastodon Ivory.  If its a Strat, the bridge is yanked out and I order the Titanium block Strat Assembly.  Pickguards and electronics from Callaham.  Nothing stock that I cannot improve will stay on the guitar for another day.  I can do this because I know what I want and I know what each specific upgrade does to the sound if not a general direction of where it will go at the minimum.  

In the case of the hot box, I was lucky enough to pickup a tip from Harmony Central to try out the 12at7 and within a day after Sopwith lent me the Hot Box, the Sovtek 12ax7 was replaced and it sounded better with the NOS 12at7.  In the same way, I will still buy the Evidence Audio power cord to improve the sound of my Diezel Herbert.  It did not come with it.  Nor did the Herbert come with three paris of spare 6l6s, KT88s, 6550 etc even though it is capable of using those tubes.  The problem is you expect from a US$400 Matchless is that it contain NOS tubes well the problem is that -- your personal expectations of what US$400 will get you from Matchless.  Unfortunately, even if I wanted more value from it, I have no choice to go with what is available to me here.  The fact is that it did not stop me seeing its potential beyond the Sovtek 12ax7 tube.

Offline katzenjammer

  • Senior Member
  • ***
Re: Boutique Pedal Review: Matchless Hot Box -- Not for the financially challeng
« Reply #183 on: December 03, 2006, 09:51:52 PM »
ang tindi ni pareng Joric.. bluesman nga sya pero kung makipag-away, METAL! hupaw huhupaw! :lol:

ahehehe! Oo nga, atapang-atao! :-D

Yan ang schoolmate!
"Manalo, matalo, Bugbog kayo!" - Notre DAme vs. PCHS '92 NMMAA Basketball Championship :-D

sir SDMF .. Damer din po ba kayo?

Yup, batch 94 ako.
Ikaw?

wow, finally naglalabasan na din mga damer's.. batch 2002-2003 here.  :-)
It's not what you play, It's not how you play, It's who you are. - Aya Yuson

Offline oasgomez-is-banned

  • Forum Fanatic
  • ****
Deltaslim,

So whats your guess?  You are keeping us in suspense...  Wow, for a guy who spends US$4,000 on tubes, its so difficult for you to be specific.  Thats what I call true boutique behaviour.  Do you still have a tube amp with you today?  If not, just give me your US$4,000 worth of tubes because I just realized I have close to 100 tube sockets to fill up.  

Yeah if you end up with the Klon Centaur, I hope you own it up today.  The Centaur was ABed against my modded TS9 and it just did not make the grade based on my ears.  I really really wanted it to blow my TS9 out of the water but it did not.  Darn... I had the chance to buy it but I felt the mid-hump was just was not nice sounding and it could not beat the punch of the modded TS9.

Still, why aren't you using an RJ guitar today if you are so impressed with RJ?  Dont try skirting the issue.  You know what I think?  You are afraid to say on this forum that you do not think it is Good Enough for you for various reasons because you want to be politically correct.  

    

Offline markflo

  • Moderator
  • *****
dude, using a 12at7 as your preamp sucks...put in a 12ay7...or a 5751 (close to a 12ax7)...12at7's sound better in an amp's phase inverter....believe me....i used to have 3 tube pedals (1 of which i sold) tried the 12at7 (yes, NOS, 12at7 NOS' aren't that hard to find anyway) and it SUCKED big time! it sounded farty and sh!tty...

if you want a classic tweed sound...go 12ay7....

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt. - Abraham Lincoln

Offline glassjaw_jc

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
Re: Boutique Pedal Review: Matchless Hot Box -- Not for the financially challeng
« Reply #186 on: December 03, 2006, 10:03:27 PM »
You can do that because you already know what those parts can do. It has become personal preference. It doesn't mean that the guitar sucks. It is already good sounding the day you bought it... ".....If I find a good sounding guitar.....".

In this case, 2 reviews says it sucks stock. Your review and Slim's review.

Did your herbert suck with stock tubes? Changing the tubes just means you're working with personal preference. It doesn't mean your herbert sucks. If you really want your herbert to sound better, I suggest you have your electricity wiring fixed before deciding to buy an expensive power cord. Electricity is dirty in this country (unless you're playing in a data center or you have your amps in our top recording studios. TRAcks maybe?).

No, I don't expect the hot box to come with NOS tubes. But I also don't expect it to be a disappointment with stock tubes. If it is indeed less desirable in stock mode, then it doesn't deserve the $400 price tag.

I don't question its potential, I question its value. I never question the price people put in their gear. Why would I buy something that "I need to fix" before I can use unless it's broken or it's something uber rare.
Surf's Up!

Offline katzenjammer

  • Senior Member
  • ***
Re: Boutique Pedal Review: Matchless Hot Box -- Not for the financially challeng
« Reply #187 on: December 03, 2006, 10:04:13 PM »
Deltaslim,

So whats your guess?  You are keeping us in suspense...  Wow, for a guy who spends US$4,000 on tubes, its so difficult for you to be specific.  Thats what I call true boutique behaviour.  Do you still have a tube amp with you today?  If not, just give me your US$4,000 worth of tubes because I just realized I have close to 100 tube sockets to fill up. 

Yeah if you end up with the Klon Centaur, I hope you own it up today.  The Centaur was ABed against my modded TS9 and it just did not make the grade based on my ears.  I really really wanted it to blow my TS9 out of the water but it did not.  Darn... I had the chance to buy it but I felt the mid-hump was just was not nice sounding and it could not beat the punch of the modded TS9.

Still, why aren't you using an RJ guitar today if you are so impressed with RJ?  Dont try skirting the issue.  You know what I think?  You are afraid to say on this forum that you do not think it is Good Enough for you for various reasons because you want to be politically correct. 

   

makikiextra lang po, anu naman masama kung RJ ang gitara mo? or anything that is local? i think there's nothing wrong with that. Even if you give me a rj guitar, ill stand up, use it and be myself.  :-)
It's not what you play, It's not how you play, It's who you are. - Aya Yuson

Offline oasgomez-is-banned

  • Forum Fanatic
  • ****
Deltaslim,

I never said that there can only be one.   I did qualify for what the Matchless does it does best but tomorrow can be another thing... I am not discounting Damage Control , Valve Boy and I am still waiting for Effectrode.  Para sa iyo, there can be none.  Kung ganoon lang pare bakit ka pa nagpopost ng wisdom mo dito sa gear?  After all, kanya kanya iyan para sa iyo -- if you cannot put your conviction behind gear, dont attack my conviction on what I think sounds good kasi again as you said KANYA KANYA iyan.  By the way, please notice that I do not attack your threads or your reviews anymore and I only counter post this way because I think mali ka on this review and I have conviction behind that kasi HINDI MO NARINIG ang Hot Box na naka-Brimar 12at7.  

Offline tele-tubby

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****

Twenty years from now, who'll people remember? The good players or the spoiled li'l rich kids?

people will remember the person who sticks a whole guitar up the li'l rich kid's ass and asks him "how do you like 'em tone?" :-D

Offline oasgomez-is-banned

  • Forum Fanatic
  • ****
Markflo,

Thats the next step actually.  Since the Hot Box has two pairs, I can mix and match the different types and thats why I am so happy about that.  I just needed to validate that a NOS 12at7 would change the character of the pedal.  When I did it to my V-twin, it did not change much and was still fuzzy.  

Offline oasgomez-is-banned

  • Forum Fanatic
  • ****
Glassjaw,

Just for clarification, when I say that a guitar is good sounding to me, I say that because I assess the character of the wood.  Period. It can have great character but lousy electronics and hardware for me. The timbre and other properties are subject to improvement.  In short, I buy a guitar because of the wood's character and not the timbre.   

On the point on electricity, you are correct.  I have been looking into the FURMAN PRO -- that floor thingy kaso wala dito.  So, kailangan pa custom order sa U.S. dahil 220 tayo dito. All the power outlets near my amps have the ground plug grounded.  In fact, I was looking into a separate power line and separate ground for my amps but it would be such a hassle to rewire the whole house.  Maybe later...

So, if it sounds disappointing with a stock tube but sounds killer with a NOS 12at7, its not worth it?  Ako, tinitingnan ko na lang ang ibang character at tunog niya with a NOS 12at7.  So, kung binigay sa iyo at US$40 with a stock tube ang Matchless Hot Box pero ang sama ng tunog at hindi mabago ang tunog na may tube swap bibilhin mo ba?  I doubt it.  It really boils down to what you perceive US$400 will buy you in terms of sound quality not because it was a disappointment to me and Deltaslim. 

Kung value lang paguusapan, may TS9 na modded na maganda rin pero wala siyang ibang capability at potential ng Hot Box.  Defining Value is a long treatise but the important thing is YOU define value yourself and as long as you have not heard it, its hard to determine if you will ever find the Hot Box valuable.


Offline oasgomez-is-banned

  • Forum Fanatic
  • ****
Katzen,

Forgive me if I sound offensive, but for me, I have better guitars than RJ guitars that have magic and soul.  I am not saying that you cannot use RJ guitars but rather I have guitars that have character -- take note I did not mention timbre -- that I have not found in RJ guitars.  On the technical level, nothing by RJ can match the workmanship on my guitars.  I can use RJ but I will not be happy with it.

By the way, I began with an RJ guitar customized by Mang Rudy.  Though I think a lot of the new RJs are made in Korea and I have to say that they have improved a lot but are still far off from my requirements.  But that should not stop you from making music...

I don't know about the Deltaslim... maybe RJ should offer him an endorsement deal...

Offline glassjaw_jc

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
Re: Boutique Pedal Review: Matchless Hot Box -- Not for the financially challeng
« Reply #193 on: December 03, 2006, 10:44:22 PM »
"......Unfortunately, even if I wanted more value from it, I have no choice to go with what is available to me here...."

You already said it yourself. You already think it doesn't deserve it's price.

"...So, if it sounds disappointing with a stock tube but sounds killer with a NOS 12at7, its not worth it?..."

ahh... ok I forgot to add something to my posts... IMHO....

IMHO... no, it's not worth the price. Why? Again, because "I" have to fix it first before I can actually use it. Again, I'd rather buy it at a higher price and save me the hassle. It may even be potentially more costly if I experiment with vacuum tubes rather than buy the item at a higher price than it has.
Surf's Up!

Offline oasgomez-is-banned

  • Forum Fanatic
  • ****
Al,

Problem with you is that you don't know when to believe or when to be entertained...

Offline glassjaw_jc

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
Re: Boutique Pedal Review: Matchless Hot Box -- Not for the financially challeng
« Reply #195 on: December 03, 2006, 10:50:12 PM »
On a side note, I actually thought of buying it when sopwith posted it in the classifieds section. But it's not something I need so I passed. I actually thought that he was selling it for cheap.

So on your question if I will find it valuable, as an investment, yes. I can buy it and just store it away.


EDIT :

I never questioned it's potential, just its percieved value considering its price.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2006, 10:53:34 PM by glassjaw_jc »
Surf's Up!

Offline oasgomez-is-banned

  • Forum Fanatic
  • ****
Glassjaw,

For info, Matchless just resumed production just this year.  Now, what I had available was a 220 volt version customized to our voltage that came with a SOVTEK 12ax7.  It is nowhere near availalbe and I am not sure if the new Matchless will produce it.  Yes, I would have paid for NOS tubes installed on it from the factory if I could and that would have raised its value to me.  But for what it does it is worth more than its price.  I could have gotten more value but that does not mean its not worth its price at the minimum.  

Do you ever change pickups?  If you do.  Why do you?  So what right?  The guitar is sunk cost which means that the initial investment in the past should not affect the future decision of whether to dispose the guitar or upgrade the guitar.   Following your logic, just because the thing does not come out perfect on your first purchase nothing deserves an upgrade because kulang sa value.  Moreover, that means your logic dictates that you can only buy something perfect or buy nothing at all.  So, lahat kami na nag-uupgrade ng pickups ay hindi sulit ang biniling gitara?  

Offline oasgomez-is-banned

  • Forum Fanatic
  • ****
Glassjaw,

I dont buy things for investment.  Though I may spend a lot on gear, never do I buy for investment.  It has to sound good. Period.  Thats the least form of value in my mind.

I was ready to give up on this so-called holy grail of matchless fame and was content at leaving it at that until I had to make sure that I had covered every possible base and say that this pedal was worth letting go like the Klon Centaur.  So, I tried a tube swap and lo and behold I realized its potential way more than its Classified Ads status. 

Sometimes you realize you need something when you try it out and other times you buy something you really don't need...

Offline glassjaw_jc

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
Re: Boutique Pedal Review: Matchless Hot Box -- Not for the financially challeng
« Reply #198 on: December 03, 2006, 11:18:29 PM »
I never said I want it perfect right out of the factory. I just don't need something that will disappointment me. I've already experienced a lot of that. That's why we choose before we buy, because we want to get the most of what we spend.

If you think it's worth its price. Then for you it's worth it. For me it is not.
Surf's Up!

Offline oasgomez-is-banned

  • Forum Fanatic
  • ****
Disappointment happens with the following scenarios:

1) Buying something that turns out to be a dud after the honeymoon period.
2) The other side of disappointment is letting go of something you should have never let go which you thought was dud for some reason. 
3) Corollary to that is that you can let go of something you really would have liked but never tried but you are not disappointed because you never heard it.  Of course you do not consider yourself disappointed because you come up with reasons other than related to the product's peformance e.g. price, vibe, look, etc.
4) You can also let go of something you really would have liked but never tried but you are not disappointed because you never knew of it.  This I call ignorance because you go around thinking you are so happy when you should go around and be dissatisfied.

In the case of the Matchless, I checked to make sure that I will not commit Disappointment Scenario Number 3. 

Here are further tips, you can avoid Disappointment Scenario Number 2 because I know what I want. You can also avoid Disappointment Scenario Number when you know what you want.

But unfortunately, you can only avoid Disappointment Scenario Number 3 if you try it and do research.

For Disappointment Scenario Number 4, you need research and you need to try it.