How hard is it to train a mastering engineer?

[skunkyfunk]

I thought of investing on a separate budget mastering outfit with dedicated outboard equipment and monitoring.  But more importantly, I want to have someone who can master my own mixes, because I want to have a different set of ears to do the mastering.  Of course, his ears should be discerning at best.

A lot of issues to tackle about mastering - noise reduction, editing loud transients, converting a waveform to a "mini 2x4" before sending it to a peak limiter to make it one huge 2x4, dithering, multi-band compression, phase-shifting the midrange, EQ, and a lot of those things. 

is it better to train an apprentice or ask someone more experienced to do the job.  By the way, here's how American Idiot's waveform looks like: 



And this is a closeup:



Sorry folks but I'm budging.  I think the loudness = goodness sickness is here to stay and I think I really need to setup a volume engineering suite. 

[abyssinianson]

My 2 cents:

-to say that it is representative of all American mastering to master loud is inaccurate such that there are a lot of people who master records commercially who do not happen to follow the GD example that you provide. Mastering loud, like mixing methodology, is subjective according to the approach of each person completing the task - it is not meant to provide a specific standard as you would imply.

-if you want something mastered subjectively, properly, and consistently - hire someone to do it who has the proper experience, background and equipment to complete the job. Training a mastering engineer like recording personel requires much experience and should not be treated like it is something easy to do if you want the job done right - one does not train a mastering engineer if one isn't a mastering engineer by trade because it is a separate vocational pathway in the recording profession.

You mention that you would like to setup a separate budget for a mastering outfit - by "outfit," are you implying that you are looking to make a dedicated mastering facility in addition to your recording place? A mastering facility requires specific types of gear and discerning environment than a recording studio so please be more specific with what you mean by "outfit" because it can literally mean anything from acquiring basic "pre-mastering" plugs to building and buying an entire monitoring setup for mastering alone.

[skunkyfunk]

My 2 cents:

-to say that it is representative of all American mastering to master loud is inaccurate such that there are a lot of people who master records commercially who do not happen to follow the GD example that you provide. Mastering loud, like mixing methodology, is subjective according to the approach of each person completing the task - it is not meant to provide a specific standard as you would imply.

-if you want something mastered subjectively, properly, and consistently - hire someone to do it who has the proper experience, background and equipment to complete the job. Training a mastering engineer like recording personel requires much experience and should not be treated like it is something easy to do if you want the job done right - one does not train a mastering engineer if one isn't a mastering engineer by trade because it is a separate vocational pathway in the recording profession.

You mention that you would like to setup a separate budget for a mastering outfit - by "outfit," are you implying that you are looking to make a dedicated mastering facility in addition to your recording place? A mastering facility requires specific types of gear and discerning environment than a recording studio so please be more specific with what you mean by "outfit" because it can literally mean anything from acquiring basic "pre-mastering" plugs to building and buying an entire monitoring setup for mastering alone.

Abyss, I did not say loud mastering is representative of the professional approach to mastering nowadays.  It's just that, I find it hard to get mixes to go THAT loud when doing things ITB.  I've always thought using outboard peak-limiting, multi-band compression and some sort of aural exciter or sonic maximizer is a necessary evil because you can shoot up the 0dBFS+ levels a tad more before bringing them back to digital and doing peak limiting again in the digital domain. 

As for a separate outfit, YES.  Different set of tools, monitors, listening room, and a new refrigerator.    But I guess I cannot afford a DAT player or 1/2" deck for now because most record digitally and save data to CDR or DVD+R.  However, I find that TASCAM DSD DVDR recorder very appealing. 

Sorry for the use of the word "train" because I really ain't a mastering engineer by trade.  But then, having a dedicated mastering facility is not really common in the country not until Zach Lucero opened his own a few years back.   So I guess, the problem is finding a trainer in the first place.  However, maybe I can impart a few techniques that I do in mixing that an apprentice can use, preferably someone who has much experience in mixing.  DJs tend to be good in this aspect.  They know how to edit waveforms well.  But to arm him for being a mastering engineer is great, because I think, it  is  one of the the echelons of recording.

For now, my goal is to fix my mixes first instead of doing the trial and error "mastering" by listening to different listening environments. 

Speaking of equipment, what can you say about ATC mastering monitors?  I heard ADAM makes very good mastering speakers but they would cost me all my arms and legs. 

[abyssinianson]

I've only worked with one set of ATCs - a set of far fields - and they sounded pretty good for the material I was working with, however, whether or not they flatter particular genres is a matter of opinion because I wasn't at the facility to A/B songs. Not very many places I've been in have ATCs so I can't say much about em. I do have more experience with Bowers and Wilkins, vintage Duntechs (which are still in use in many places), Nova Evolutions and stuff from SLS. I can say with a bit more certainty that the speakers from these companies offer pretty good versatility that you can use to monitor accurately across differently music genres.

As a person who has worked with the DJ dance genre, I can get where you are coming from but you should also make it a point to orient the person with the finer details of mastering because as every DJ knows - the bottom is where its at - and this makes it quite difficult to loose sight of important details when you are trying to master subjectively. Using a different set of ears to master is a good idea but trying to overcome difficulties in a scene where there are basically no specialized mastering engineers is going to be a bit hard...I guess you're going to have to pool knowledge together and see how that works out.

[starfugger]

I thought of investing on a separate budget mastering outfit with dedicated outboard equipment and monitoring.  But more importantly, I want to have someone who can master my own mixes, because I want to have a different set of ears to do the mastering.  Of course, his ears should be discerning at best.

A lot of issues to tackle about mastering - noise reduction, editing loud transients, converting a waveform to a "mini 2x4" before sending it to a peak limiter to make it one huge 2x4, dithering, multi-band compression, phase-shifting the midrange, EQ, and a lot of those things. 

is it better to train an apprentice or ask someone more experienced to do the job.  By the way, here's how American Idiot's waveform looks like: 



And this is a closeup:



Sorry folks but I'm budging.  I think the loudness = goodness sickness is here to stay and I think I really need to setup a volume engineering suite. 

sana matuloy.  we need more dedicated mastering facilities around here, IMO. 

ayos lang naman kahit ganon kalakas ang american idiot.  it's a rock song, and despite the loudness may konti pang dynamics because of the arrangement. 

we should all support TURNMEUP.ORG  so that we can finally have that label implemented. 

how hard is it to train a mastering engineer?  i think without a dedicated mastering engineer mentor, it would probably take as long as learning recording itself, if not longer.  you can start with the book The Art Of Mastering, by Bob Katz.  the only thing there is he mentions a lot of hard ware stuff (like cedar de-essers, etc etc etc)  that would cost the entire GNP of a small third world country    im guessing we can downsize somehow and achieve decent results with a few good pieces of hard ware and lots of high quality software.

[abyssinianson]

sana matuloy.  we need more dedicated mastering facilities around here, IMO. 

ayos lang naman kahit ganon kalakas ang american idiot.  it's a rock song, and despite the loudness may konti pang dynamics because of the arrangement. 

we should all support TURNMEUP.ORG  so that we can finally have that label implemented. 

how hard is it to train a mastering engineer?  i think without a dedicated mastering engineer mentor, it would probably take as long as learning recording itself, if not longer.  you can start with the book The Art Of Mastering, by Bob Katz.  the only thing there is he mentions a lot of hard ware stuff (like cedar de-essers, etc etc etc)  that would cost the entire GNP of a small third world country    im guessing we can downsize somehow and achieve decent results with a few good pieces of hard ware and lots of high quality software.

hey, is it possible that you guys could get a mastering clinic together like you do those recording clinics seeing how studio owners do have an interest in this sort of thing? i see that the recording clinics by Kit and the rest of the folks have a pretty good turn out - maybe an event focusing on specialization of mastering theory by people who are interested in it can be organized?. Just a thought...

[starfugger]

hey, is it possible that you guys could get a mastering clinic together like you do those recording clinics seeing how studio owners do have an interest in this sort of thing? i see that the recording clinics by Kit and the rest of the folks have a pretty good turn out - maybe an event focusing on specialization of mastering theory by people who are interested in it can be organized?. Just a thought...

mejo difficult abyss because without a specialist we'll all be simply groping in the dark.  pwede yung logistics but we realy dont have a mentor as of yet

[rakrakan]

cool, more power, sana matuloy.

my 2 cents... crucial in a mastering facility are:
1. mastering engineer (taste, experience, philosophy)
2. room
3. monitoring
4. processing equipment (can be hardware but can also be software)

It's my dream to one day get into the mastering game (for now I do with "mastering") but I resolved for the next 5 years I'll keep on making my mixes better muna.

[starfugger]

cool, more power, sana matuloy.

my 2 cents... crucial in a mastering facility are:
1. mastering engineer (taste, experience, philosophy)
2. room
3. monitoring
4. processing equipment (can be hardware but can also be software)

It's my dream to one day get into the mastering game (for now I do with "mastering") but I resolved for the next 5 years I'll keep on making my mixes better muna.

ako din i think id be spreading myself too thin if i get into mastering as of now.

[jeff_proX40]

yeah pwede ako attend as a student??? I'd like to know how to record and master.  galing galing. Sana pro tools gamit na interface. dali kasi gamitin eh.

[KitC]

yeah pwede ako attend as a student??? I'd like to know how to record and master.  galing galing. Sana pro tools gamit na interface. dali kasi gamitin eh.

You might be surprised.

Protools is not the be all end all of recording. Mastering tools tend to be different from your standard recording tools simply because they tend to concentrate on playback systems. Heck, even the monitors and gear they use range from high end to really esoteric. Monitors can range from Adams to Emes and Focus systems. Compressors can be like the Manley Labs Variable Mu Tube Limiter and EQs like the Avalon Designs AD2077. Recording/mixing and mastering are 2 very different disciplines indeed.

[skunkyfunk]

Has anyone tried visiting Zach Lucero's TWEAK MASTERING studio?

[abyssinianson]

You might be surprised.

Protools is not the be all end all of recording. Mastering tools tend to be different from your standard recording tools simply because they tend to concentrate on playback systems. Heck, even the monitors and gear they use range from high end to really esoteric. Monitors can range from Adams to Emes and Focus systems. Compressors can be like the Manley Labs Variable Mu Tube Limiter and EQs like the Avalon Designs AD2077. Recording/mixing and mastering are 2 very different disciplines indeed.

+1...quite a common misconception indeed. A lot of people have yet to realize that it isn't as much about the software than it is about the actual tools that go into the signal chain.

[xjepoyx]

Has anyone tried visiting Zach Lucero's TWEAK MASTERING studio?

i might have the opportunity to visit it. Me and Zach have a meeting once he gets back from Boracay

[starfugger]

Has anyone tried visiting Zach Lucero's TWEAK MASTERING studio?

i have, a couple of years ago.  all i can say is his listening environment is A1.  grabe.  super nice stereo imaging. 

[superwup]

This comes from: Record-Producer.com


The logic behind having your mastering done by a professional is that it can put the icing on the cake of a good mix. And if your track is mastered by someone who doesn't really know what he is doing (i.e. you), then it can be completely ruined.

 
This is the advice given by mastering engineers, and is often repeated in recording websites (including this one), magazines and books.

But you know what the best thing to do with advice that is repeated so often that it becomes true simply because no alternative viewpoint is ever presented?

Trash it.

OK, the advice to have your mastering done by a professional is duly trashed. Now, you can do your own mastering with a clear conscience.

Let's unpick the advice normally given on mastering. Pro mastering engineers always complain about the eternal pursuit of subjective loudness. You can get that by compressing, limiting and then clipping.

Well I'd say there is no such thing as excessive subjective loudness. Just go for it and make your track as loud as you dare. Then make it louder.

Mastering engineers also say that you should master on a neutral, high-quality monitoring system.

Nah, just do it on your normal monitors. Presuming you chose monitors you like the sound of, then master your track so it sounds good on them.

Mastering engineers say that faults such as clicks, distortion or noise should be carefully and precisely edited, filtered or processed so the result is a clean, fault-free recording.

Really? How come that every hip hop track has vinyl surface noise in the samples as an upfront feature? Clicks, distortion and noise are artifacts of the medium. Just like an artist doesn't try to conceal his brush strokes, you shouldn't try to conceal the characteristics of the medium you work in.

Mastering engineers also say...

Well they say lots of things, but in your studio, with your music and your equipment - just do it the way that feels good to you.

Don't let anybody say that you can't master your own tracks, prove them wrong and just go ahead and do it!

Would you like to comment on this article? Click here to write to Record-Producer.com

There is "hope" for us, "home" studio owners 

[superwup]

This is also an nice article:

http://www.record-producer.com/learn.cfm?a=4127

Again from WWW.record-producer.com

Hope it is not illegal to post it.

[superwup]

From record-producer.com

The logic behind having your mastering done by a professional is that it can put the icing on the cake of a good mix. And if your track is mastered by someone who doesn't really know what he is doing (i.e. you), then it can be completely ruined.

 
This is the advice given by mastering engineers, and is often repeated in recording websites (including this one), magazines and books.

But you know what the best thing to do with advice that is repeated so often that it becomes true simply because no alternative viewpoint is ever presented?

Trash it.

OK, the advice to have your mastering done by a professional is duly trashed. Now, you can do your own mastering with a clear conscience.

Let's unpick the advice normally given on mastering. Pro mastering engineers always complain about the eternal pursuit of subjective loudness. You can get that by compressing, limiting and then clipping.

Well I'd say there is no such thing as excessive subjective loudness. Just go for it and make your track as loud as you dare. Then make it louder.

Mastering engineers also say that you should master on a neutral, high-quality monitoring system.

Nah, just do it on your normal monitors. Presuming you chose monitors you like the sound of, then master your track so it sounds good on them.

Mastering engineers say that faults such as clicks, distortion or noise should be carefully and precisely edited, filtered or processed so the result is a clean, fault-free recording.

Really? How come that every hip hop track has vinyl surface noise in the samples as an upfront feature? Clicks, distortion and noise are artifacts of the medium. Just like an artist doesn't try to conceal his brush strokes, you shouldn't try to conceal the characteristics of the medium you work in.

Mastering engineers also say...

Well they say lots of things, but in your studio, with your music and your equipment - just do it the way that feels good to you.

Don't let anybody say that you can't master your own tracks, prove them wrong and just go ahead and do it!

Would you like to comment on this article? Click here to write to Record-Producer.com


So there is "hope" for us, the "home" studio producers 

[abyssinianson]

you can master you own tracks - there aren't any hard and fast rules about it - however, having your tracks mastered by someone who masters for a living accomplishes one very important thing: you are making your tracks more competitive among a larger pool of material which sound a certain way. you can master your own tracks, however, whether or not it will be viewed as a piece of finished music that sounds "just as good" as other popular music will be a source of debate...

[chuck sabbath]

^interesting

i have enough respect for real mastering engineers to poo-poo that advice...but not enough to keep me from "mastering" my own stuff

btw that hiphop example is a bit misleading...yung pops, clicks etc sa hiphop is not due to the recording media but the inherent "flaw"/idiosyncrasy of the "instrument", in this case the vinyl. its like hendrix's out of tune guitar or miles' overblowing. likas na yun sa performance/expression ng instrument. yung sinasabi nyang "characteristics of the medium" can be applied to tape compression/distortion siguro. but to leave clicks/clipping/hash in when youre working in digital is just bad engineering

[superwup]

Me to, respect for mastering engineers.
I did work with a few in my "younger" dayīs, itīs a very specialised job.....

But if your budged is low just try to make the best of it in your own "way" 

Donīt forget:

Not all "hits" went to a  mastering engineer first.

[KitC]

Not all "hits" went to a  mastering engineer first.

Heck... some hits even came direct from a 4-track cassette. Now THAT's impressive!

[abyssinianson]

Heck... some hits even came direct from a 4-track cassette. Now THAT's impressive!

yep - Stevie Ray Vaughan's first demo eventually became Texas Flood because it was recorded as well as it could have at the time.

[zach lucero]

there are no solid rules. in the end pagandahan lang ng tunog yan eh. and to achieve that, dapat mas problemahin ang tracking and mixing rather than mastering in this country. we have a lot to catch up to with these initial stages in recording. i got my hands on a local recording mastered by a renowned mastering engineer from the states. i did the post prod for the project. ganun did. no matter what, source is king. mastering is a treat, if the mixing and tracking is superb. otherwise, its  useless. if i got to master some material from chesky, that will sound a lot better than material i will master from a poorly tracked and mixed song recorded here, or anywhere else for that matter.

    there is no voodoo or hidden magic in mastering. its simply eq-ing, compression, leveling, and knowing how to balance things out. knowing when enough is enough and when to stop. a clinic on mastering at this stage we have in recording i feel is for nought. what are we gona master? 

ot. hazel nice mix on kastigo! i loved mastering your mix. good job keep it up!!!

[starfugger]

there are no solid rules. in the end pagandahan lang ng tunog yan eh. and to achieve that, dapat mas problemahin ang tracking and mixing rather than mastering in this country. we have a lot to catch up to with these initial stages in recording. i got my hands on a local recording mastered by a renowned mastering engineer from the states. i did the post prod for the project. ganun did. no matter what, source is king. mastering is a treat, if the mixing and tracking is superb. otherwise, its  useless. if i got to master some material from chesky, that will sound a lot better than material i will master from a poorly tracked and mixed song recorded here, or anywhere else for that matter.

    there is no voodoo or hidden magic in mastering. its simply eq-ing, compression, leveling, and knowing how to balance things out. knowing when enough is enough and when to stop. a clinic on mastering at this stage we have in recording i feel is for nought. what are we gona master? 

ot. hazel nice mix on kastigo! i loved mastering your mix. good job keep it up!!!

thanks zach   i just got my copy of the cd and nice job!  pinakinggan namin ni shinji sa sound creation gave him a copy too!
 
zach, i seriously seriously agree.  in my case, i see that i really have to start at the TRACKING STAGE palang.  not even sa mix.  ive watched shinji work a couple of times, heard his raw files and all i can say is, WOW.  galing din ng ideas nya sa mix.  you're a drummer.  you know shinji's kick tracks are serious ass-whoopers.  merong oomph talaga.  ive soloe'd even his overhead mics and the oomph is still there.  now how does he do that?!  my point is i am starting to see the possibilities taking place as early as the tracking stage.  so yeah, if we can keep improving the quality as early as possible, maybe then we could seriously look into mastering.