Author Topic: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines (Read 121985 times)

oasgomez-is-banned · « **Reply #100 on:** March 24, 2006, 05:26:01 AM »

Skunky Funk,

I am afraid the Diezel might fry two Greenback 4x12 cabinets. 200 watts lang iyon kung todo.

oasgomez-is-banned · « **Reply #101 on:** March 24, 2006, 05:35:43 AM »

Al,

I am also not discounting the possibility that Venus Isle might have a lousy amp specially one of the lower end ones of Peavey, Marshall or Fender. Kung ganoon, talagang talo sila sa Diezel.

On 180 watts, if you read my previous post, the Herbert uses the extra power to maintain the cranked qualities of an amp at ANY volume that includes bedroom to coliseum. If you also read previous posts, the Diezel line started out its life in recording studios and was not available to the public for several years. In short ang bumibili niyan ay mga record producers and engineers. It was meant to replace a whole arsenal of amps in the studio. Do I think it can replace an arsenal of amps like POD and Line 6? Nope. But, for what it brings to the table nothing can beat it e.g. three great sounding amp channels that are distinct, flexibility and sounds great at ANY volume. I cannot stress this enough because I did not and could not believe this claim until I tried out the amp. So given that fact, wattage for me does not matter -- it rarely does anymore because I just look at how the amp is voiced. People will claim that power tube saturation is different from pre amp tube saturation but for me the sound is so nice that I dont even care to qualify whether its pre amp or powertube saturation. People forget the Output transformer is also a factor for saturation. So I ask those people who think that power tube saturation is superior, paano ang output transformer ng amp? Can you separate the degree of influence it has on the so called power tube saturation?

oasgomez-is-banned · « **Reply #102 on:** March 24, 2006, 05:45:08 AM »

Phil,

I am really also interested in the Bogner Ecstasy. Kaso nasubukan ko muna ang Uberschall which I bought because of its specialized nature and unique voicing by Bogner. But given my experience with the Diezel Herbert, interesado ako uli sa mga multi-channel amps specially the Bogner Ecstasy. I used to think multi-channel amps only had one great sounding channel or none at all but the Herbert again has changed my perspective.

Given the description you gave me for your ideal sound, I strongly recommend you try the Herbert. It is so smooth and warm. Violin type ang mga nota because of the special mid voicing that I and Arie cannot get over. I was just comparing it to the SLO last night. The SLO sounded too raunchy. I believe sa Herbert channel 2+ makukuha muna ang violin guitar mo without entering the high gain territory of channel 3. The SLO is a bit more softer/malambot than the Diezel by a hair with less compression. Kung Vai and Satriani, kaya ng amp na ito straight jack without effects.

abyssinianson · « **Reply #103 on:** March 24, 2006, 06:02:37 AM »

oas...oas....whoever is rationalizing your engineering is, uh, wrong.. Regardless of how many watts your amps is, you can't blow out your greenbacks with the Diezel. Lord, my stomach was aching reading your post - so many electrical engineering misnomers!!! I was trained as an engineer and unless you amp has a load other than 4 16 or 8 ohms - which I highly doubt since I've seen a Herbert and own a VH4S -Greenbacks in the 4x12 are fine. You might structurally wreck them over time from high volume playing but I doubt you play arenas enough to require the Herbert to be played at full throttle the whole time. Even a venue as big as music museum or the araneta coliseum caters to only specific acts and unless you are a session player, I doubt you play there either to require the Herbert at full volume performance.

Please, for the sake of others who KNOW amplifier circuitry and might own a Diezel (but prefer to lurk)...read up on what your amp is doing and what it can't do which is replace tons of amps in a recording house's amp collection. What you said is just a dead give away that you basically know nothing about what you are yapping about so slow down, sit down, breathe, and grab a book on amplifier schematics and LEARN - you are killing me with misleading information and amateurish bravado that is, to say the least, misplaced and highly arrogant. Venus Isle is a musician in his own right - you had no right to bash him like that. Come on, man, your schpiel on power tube saturation was enough to get me smirking - even a student at don Bosco could take youu through the ropes of circuitry pathways!

Hmmm...it seems to me that you've never set foot in a full fledged recording studio, have you? I am talking about a full capacity studio house - not those smaller places. If you haven't you need to stop your claims, man, because it is just untrue; the Diezel can't tke the place of other amps - you would be plain stupid to say so. I've spent the better part of 10 years in a lot of studios, including some very historic ones and though some of them have Diezel's - they have older amps - cheap and expensive - that they keep as well.

Now, enough talk...go study then come back to me once you know more about electrical engineering theory. If you spent 4 grand on that amp, you'd better KNOW what it does...

lykenhowl · « **Reply #104 on:** March 24, 2006, 06:02:45 AM »

Quote from: oasgomez

Al,

I am also not discounting the possibility that Venus Isle might have a lousy amp specially one of the lower end ones of Peavey, Marshall or Fender. Kung ganoon, talagang talo sila sa Diezel.

Just because it's cheap you already call it lousy? Dang! Magpakumbaba ka naman!

oasgomez-is-banned · « **Reply #105 on:** March 24, 2006, 06:09:19 AM »

One thing I would like to say about the Ultrasound guys in New York is that they are straight shooters. They never talk about the features or specifications of an amp. For example, they will never tell you that you cannot have a 100 watt or 180 watt that performs well at low volumes. They will tell you that Bruno Super 100s are better than 9 out of 10 Dumbles but that one Dumble is untouchable. They will tell you that the 30 watt Komet Constellation or the 60 watt Komet needs to be as loud as hell for it to soften up and is very picky with cabinets thats why they recommend Herbert. They will tell you that CAA OD50 has a great clean channel but a not so satisfactory overdrive channel. What they tell you is the amp's playing characteristics and sound. How can they do this? Because they have all these amps in under one roof with multiple units of each. And more importantly the amps are all tested and A/Bed in rehearsal studios. So, it really looks petty for us to come up and say 180 watts is overkill blah blah when we have not yet heard the amp. And I am saying this because I was myself sounded petty to the Ultrasound Guys because I was harping on so much electronic & theory jargon. So, Al dont knock down something or try to find loopholes in the specifications based on how you perceived your past experience with other high powered amps because I am telling you know that this is different.

On another post, somebody said that I brag too much and he goes on to compare me with another humble guy in manila with more than 50 vintage guitars and 50 vintage amps. Well, I am going to say than NONE of those 50 vintage amps will sound like a Diezel Herbert. I can prove that. The Diezel line will and I consider to be a classic sound on its own. I have not espoused vintage as superior and I do not discount that there are great sounding vintage amps. I have some too. But the excitement and inspiration from the Herbert is a totally different vibe from vintage amps. Now given the flexibility of the Herbert, rather than lugging around 3 vintage amps that sound great to a gig, I rather gig with one Herbert with 3 great sounding channels which prior to this experience I thought was a remote possibility.

oasgomez-is-banned · « **Reply #106 on:** March 24, 2006, 06:11:51 AM »

lykenhowl,

So are you saying that because it is cheap it should sound like something more expensive?

Kung sinasabi mo na price is not an issue and you can make anything cheap sound better than anything else on this planet, ikaw ang kulang sa pagkakumbaba.

markflo · « **Reply #107 on:** March 24, 2006, 06:31:39 AM »

Quote

I am also not discounting the possibility that Venus Isle might have a lousy amp specially one of the lower end ones of Peavey, Marshall or Fender. Kung ganoon, talagang talo sila sa Diezel.

I've heard Venus Isle play in his rig ...and he sounds awesome... and that was a decade ago...I can only begin to imagine how much better sounding he has gotten over the years...

You on the other hand, oasgomez...none of us has heard play...even with your uber rig...

Venus Isle = Sounds awesome +1
Oasgomez = Silence, refuses to post clips ZERO

So, having said that...guys...who do you think sounds better?

Venus Isle can probably whip your butt musically with one hand tied behind his back...and without even trying or breaking a sweat...

Oh, by the way he uses the JSX...

I think OASgomez wasn't given any toys by his mommy when he was younger...hence...the complex...

markflo · « **Reply #108 on:** March 24, 2006, 06:33:57 AM »

hell man, marc seal was able to post a video clip...why can't you?

lykenhowl · « **Reply #109 on:** March 24, 2006, 06:39:20 AM »

Quote from: oasgomez

lykenhowl,

So are you saying that because it is cheap it should sound like something more expensive?

Kung sinasabi mo na price is not an issue and you can make anything cheap sound better than anything else on this planet, ikaw ang kulang sa pagkakumbaba.

I didnt say that I can make "cheap sound better"but a lot of guys here in this forum can, My point here Alex is dont assume that others have a "lousy" amp because its cheap or it's not boutique like yours.

enricodedios · « **Reply #110 on:** March 24, 2006, 06:44:57 AM »

wow! masyadong mainit dito sa forum na toh! Lang mag away okay. Ako ipinion ko lang I am using classic 30 peavey amp and it's sound like a boutique to me and I am not scared to put amp side by side with the other high end amps out there... Tska siguro nasa player naman din yun kung hinde sya marunong mag tweak ng sound sa amp what's the use of buying expensive amp kahit gumastos ka pa ng isang milyong dollars lagyan mo ng diamond or gold its not gonna work... yun lang opinion ko lang magagalit okay...

abyssinianson · « **Reply #111 on:** March 24, 2006, 06:47:23 AM »

lord...so you based your purchase on the whims of salespeople without even playing the amps? Do you even know where Ultrasound is in NYC? Wow, thats a LOT of faith to put in someone you've never seen. I played Diezel's extensively before I even thought about getting one and, yes, I am familiar with Bruno's and Komet's and Dumbles - why - because I've played them in the past. Nice amps - but it doesn't mean that you can write them off with a Herbert. Not by a long shot. Man, you are something of a character aren't you? Leave the other players alone because they are good musicians in their own right - the point of this forum is to help others more about THEIR tone and how they can make it better. You are just being an ass - an arrogant, bragging ass, at that...

James Hetfield and the Herbert. Of course, its bloody Metallica. The Record Plant alone has a herbert, a VH4 an Uebershcall and a Shiva. Why wouldn't James have a Diezel? He has used everything from Marshalls to Randalls to Krank amps live since I saw them last. Metallica tries everything out. Kirk even used a 2x12 Rectifier once during the Cunning Stunts tour. Who said better is bigger?

Phil · « **Reply #112 on:** March 24, 2006, 06:50:38 AM »

Quote from: oasgomez

Phil,

I am really also interested in the Bogner Ecstasy. Kaso nasubukan ko muna ang Uberschall which I bought because of its specialized nature and unique voicing by Bogner. But given my experience with the Diezel Herbert, interesado ako uli sa mga multi-channel amps specially the Bogner Ecstasy. I used to think multi-channel amps only had one great sounding channel or none at all but the Herbert again has changed my perspective.

Given the description you gave me for your ideal sound, I strongly recommend you try the Herbert. It is so smooth and warm. Violin type ang mga nota because of the special mid voicing that I and Arie cannot get over. I was just comparing it to the SLO last night. The SLO sounded too raunchy. I believe sa Herbert channel 2+ makukuha muna ang violin guitar mo without entering the high gain territory of channel 3. The SLO is a bit more softer/malambot than the Diezel by a hair with less compression. Kung Vai and Satriani, kaya ng amp na ito straight jack without effects.

well right now .....I am very happy with my Carvins.....I'm still saving up to get the Bogner Ecstasy. I'll check out a Herbert if I have a chance.

oasgomez-is-banned · « **Reply #113 on:** March 24, 2006, 06:58:47 AM »

abyssianson,

Being a great engineer that you are, can you predict how long in minutes, it will take a Diezel Herbert to structurally wreck eight 25 watt greenbacks? Call Peter Diezel and Celestion right now and ask if they recommend it. Bet tayo pati sila hindi nila ma-recommend. So why should I take the risk of wrecking somebody else's greenbacks. Paano kung naka full throttle clean ako? Remember than greenbacks have lower SPLs than others. So what I perceive to be moderate volume might actually be the amp at full throttle already.

I have said that I PERSONALLY do not think that the Diezel is a replacement for all amps. It has its own sound and sonic signature that none of the others can reproduce and that one reason it remains alongside other amps in the studio. I just said it was developed in the studio and those producers and engineers are the ones that who choose to use it or replace their other amps for whatever reasons. What I wanted to bring out is the ability of the Herbert to sound great at ANY volume and Peter's R&D with studios is definitely a plus. By the way do you know that the VH4s has the weakest power section of all Diezels except maybe for the einstein? In fact for headroom, its better to get the mono VH4? Now, imagine that the Herbert has a totally more powerful power amp section than the VH4. I wanted to get a VH4s which is much more expensive than the Diezel Herbert but I was discouraged by the guys because of the headroom problem. Now of course your headroom maybe sufficient for your needs but a perceptibly loud Diezel Herbert Clean on inefficient greenbacks may actually start to structurally wreck the speaker without the operator knowing. Since the Herbert has high headroom, one might not be able to even detect the break up on the clean channel.

oasgomez-is-banned · « **Reply #114 on:** March 24, 2006, 07:03:37 AM »

Phil,

Tell me the results of your A/B between the Ecstasy and the Herbert when you get the chance. Somebody posted a comparison on Harmony Central but its nice to get a perspective from someone like you into Steve Vai.

oasgomez-is-banned · « **Reply #115 on:** March 24, 2006, 07:12:05 AM »

Abyssinianson,

Yeah thats a lot of faith and Ken and Gene deliver. But more faith than I will place on you because you dont own all those amps at the same time. Since they have 23 rehearsal studios and you dont, they have the facility to thoroughly test those amps. By the way, I intend to drop by Ultrasound later this year to test all those amps and buy them eventually because I know and I dont discount the possibility that I might like an amp that they do not recommend to me which is the Cornford. By the way, Slash bought one of the limited edition Komets KF 50 which Ultrasound is the sole distributor. So, if that aint a badge of credibility to you what is? When was the last time you sold an amp to Slash?

abyssinianson · « **Reply #116 on:** March 24, 2006, 07:39:32 AM »

Oas...as much of an engineer as I am, I did not predict how long it will take to wreck greenbacks solely through logic, I've seen it happen, plain and simple. And SPLs? were you assuming that despite the SPL rating the greenbacks are supposed to be for clean specifically over overdriven tone use? 97db peak is plenty loud AND you are pumping sounding through 4 speakers! If THAT isn't enough headroom, who are yoou playing for? Nine Inch Nails? Even Aaron North uses a single Marshal 1960 live AND he is playing arenas! You are one misled person, my friend. Despite the SPL rating, the speakers can take them because regardless of the peak decibel rating, you are distributing the overall load per cabbinet, over a range of speakers. However, the caveat is, they might not have as much "air" as other speakers which is why some people say over driven speakers sound best when they have a relatively low peak db rating. Engineering? Nah - common sense. Its analogous to stuffing a square peg in a circular hole.

Full throttle clean? Saturation = gain stages descriptive of channel 2 and 3 on the VH4, Herbert and the VH4s. Even with 2x50 in the power section on the VH4S, thats plenty clean. Just how loud are you playing to even notice saturation in a 100W amp? Here I can deduce 2 possibilities: A) your tubes might be bad or, B) your ears have awful tinnitis.

Oh yes - because you did say to call Diezel as a suggestion, I did, just to see if I was wrong about the SPL compatibility of the Diezel to Celestions, Black Widows.... The distributors, and Diezel, said the same thing that 97/ 98 is plenty loud, and unless you're playing through a 1x12, you shouldn't be able to wreck a 4x12 especially because of the tempered resistance rating of the speakers. Just in case you want to talk to them yourself, here are the contact numbers of the places I called:

- Salwender International in CA: 714 538 1285
- Moridaira in Japan: 0081 3 3864 1641
- Diezel GmBH in Dillingen 0049 89 930 67 27

You might be better off knowing how to speak Nihonggo to talk with someone at Moridaira and Deutsch for GmBH but, luckily, my Japanese is still great and I haven't lost my German in neglect. Diezel has a separate Service line that takes care of gear compatibility questitons and warranty services. I doubt I will ever need servicing for my amp but if it does, there are a lot of authorized shops where I live. Cheers!

Phil · « **Reply #117 on:** March 24, 2006, 07:57:48 AM »

I know Cebuano bisaya..

abyssinianson · « **Reply #118 on:** March 24, 2006, 08:21:42 AM »

Phil, bisaya ka?

jack in a vox · « **Reply #119 on:** March 24, 2006, 08:30:12 AM »

yeah my deutsch isnt very good these days.. i'll get my wife to call Diezel so oasgomez can save on IDD charges.. $4100 is a lot of moolah

stratman1 · « **Reply #120 on:** March 24, 2006, 08:32:22 AM »

Quote from: Phil

Quote from: oasgomez
Sir Phil,

Just wondering, what to you is a great sound?

Have you A/Bed a Diezel Herbert versus a Carvin Legacy?

I'm a lead player ... great sound for me at the age I'm in is

.....the seering VIOLIN - like tone of Vai (smooth, creamy, fat and warm), Vinnie Moore(smooth and warm), and Satch.

I'm not into the high gain stuff........maybe 15 years ago.

....can't get my hands on a Diezel.....I'm keeping my eyes on a Bogner Ecstasy head though....2nd hand lang.

Hey! were going to amp shop after jam eb, right? Let's test them out there, if they have them on the floor, hehe

Phil · « **Reply #121 on:** March 24, 2006, 09:07:52 AM »

last time I went there...may Soladano, VHT, at Framus.

meashuggahr · « **Reply #122 on:** March 24, 2006, 09:45:16 AM »

wish i was as lupit as some guitarists here
and
let the recording studios and sound engineers and producers so and so spend $$$$$$$amp for me during the recording.

if you have the talent everything else follows:)

Kulas · « **Reply #123 on:** March 24, 2006, 09:48:58 AM »

hayy... that's why i love my marshall ms-4 so much. it's just plain simple... hehehe

enricodedios · « **Reply #124 on:** March 24, 2006, 09:59:03 AM »

meron na bang nakatry sa inyo ng heritage amp green ang kulay tapos wla syang overdrive clean only...

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Author Topic: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines (Read 121985 times)