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Author Topic: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines  (Read 122763 times)

Offline abyssinianson

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« Reply #125 on: March 24, 2006, 10:02:40 AM »
i've never tried a Heritage amp but the single channel design reminds me of the discontinued Trace Elliot Velocets that seemed to be really popular back in the day. Those were really fun. Simple and great tone. I remember Dean DeLeo from Stone Temple Pilots was into those.
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Offline PRSMan

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« Reply #126 on: March 24, 2006, 10:15:49 AM »
Quote from: oasgomez
On another post, somebody said that I brag too much and he goes on to compare me with another humble guy in manila with more than 50 vintage guitars and 50 vintage amps.  Well, I am going to say than NONE of those 50 vintage amps will sound like a Diezel Herbert.  I can prove that.


Geez... the comment from that forum member was aimed at your lack of humility... it was not meant to compare the quality of vintage amps with your Diezel... you're so caught up in whatever it is you're trying to prove that you fail to even understand what people are saying... you live a sad life man...

Offline jack in a vox

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« Reply #127 on: March 24, 2006, 10:21:07 AM »
Quote from: abyssinianson
i've never tried a Heritage amp but the single channel design reminds me of the discontinued Trace Elliot Velocets that seemed to be really popular back in the day. Those were really fun. Simple and great tone. I remember Dean DeLeo from Stone Temple Pilots was into those.


yup great amps.. if you see one.. buy it! cahnces are underpriced sya!

Offline jack in a vox

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« Reply #128 on: March 24, 2006, 10:23:43 AM »
Quote from: PRSMan
Quote from: oasgomez
On another post, somebody said that I brag too much and he goes on to compare me with another humble guy in manila with more than 50 vintage guitars and 50 vintage amps.  Well, I am going to say than NONE of those 50 vintage amps will sound like a Diezel Herbert.  I can prove that.


Geez... the comment from that forum member was aimed at your lack of humility... it was not meant to compare the quality of vintage amps with your Diezel... you're so caught up in whatever it is you're trying to prove that you fail to even understand what people are saying... you live a sad life man...


i liked the comment about how slash bought one.. and his retort to someone was "have you sold one to slash?"

totally missed the point..

Offline nathanmanansala

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« Reply #129 on: March 24, 2006, 11:36:13 AM »
Quote from: sonnyrayvaughn
...take it this way, youre eating your favorite hamburger tapos I came along and say: "Vince, ano ba yang hamburger na kinakain mo,thats [gooey brown stuff] man!?"
pero in your opinion naman your burger is quite good tasting, how would you take that?...

parang yung office mate ko nung una nakatikim ng brother's cheese steak (na ni-recommend ko kasi fave ko dati), sabi nya "ano 'to? shawarma na ginawang burger?"


Offline markflo

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« Reply #130 on: March 24, 2006, 01:03:12 PM »
OASGOMEZ! ISA LANG MASASABI KO SAYO!!!


....wala yan sa amp ng lolo ko...

BWAHAHA!
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt. - Abraham Lincoln

Offline Phil

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« Reply #131 on: March 24, 2006, 01:34:47 PM »
Quote from: markflo
OASGOMEZ! ISA LANG MASASABI KO SAYO!!!


....wala yan sa amp ng lolo ko...

BWAHAHA!
olrayts!!! vote for Markflo for moderator!!!!
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Offline Poundcake

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« Reply #132 on: March 24, 2006, 04:00:56 PM »
Quote from: markflo
Quote
I am also not discounting the possibility that Venus Isle might have a lousy amp specially one of the lower end ones of Peavey, Marshall or Fender. Kung ganoon, talagang talo sila sa Diezel.


I've heard Venus Isle play in his rig ...and he sounds awesome... and that was a decade ago...I can only begin to imagine how much better sounding he has gotten over the years...

You on the other hand, oasgomez...none of us has heard play...even with your uber rig...

Venus Isle = Sounds awesome +1
Oasgomez = Silence, refuses to post clips ZERO

So, having said that...guys...who do you think sounds better?

Venus Isle can probably whip your butt musically with one hand tied behind his back...and without even trying or breaking a sweat...

Oh, by the way he uses the JSX...

I think OASgomez wasn't given any toys by his mommy when he was younger...hence...the complex...  :D  :D  :D


hehe that's fine dude, no offense taken :) i would've bought such an amp as i have the means to buy one as well, but just a reality check, playing guitar is my passion but i'm not a full-time musician and as the other forumites have already mentioned, i'm already happy and inspired by the tone that my gear and fingers can produce. the extra $2,700 or so can be put into good use for other more meaningful things. but that's just me, kanya-kanyang trip at wallet tayo :) now back to regular programming... burger or hanging rice talk anyone? hehe...
"The LORD will save me, and we will play my music on stringed instruments all the days of our lives, at the house of the LORD." Isaiah 38:20

Offline extreme16199

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« Reply #133 on: March 24, 2006, 06:16:46 PM »
Quote from: markflo
of course, there are tonal & visual differences...even with 2 different branded 6L6's...there are always tonal & visual differences...


of course, this is true.  sorry i didn't elaborate further.  it was very late when i posted.

allow me to explain.  let's use 6L6 as the baseline and say a 6L6 is a regular 6L6 as we know it.  5881's are built to be sturdier and to fit smaller spaces than regular 6L6's.  on the other hand, KT66's are the european version of the 6L6.  in other words, each type was constructed with a specific purpose in mind (audio is only one among many purposes).  furthermore, during the heyday of vacuum tubes, tubes were made with little regard to their tonality since they were used for different applications anyway (e.g. military, industrial, electronic, consumer, etc.).  couple this with the rated plate voltage the tubes can handle, not all of these tubes can used interchangeably without biasing the amp (or not at all, if the amp has very high plate voltage and the amp has no bias control).  from this, it can be gathered that the aforementioned tubes are not the same.  the risk in assuming that they are one and the same is the potential of shortening the tube's life, frying the tube, and much worse, damaging the amp.

as for the physical appearance, a 6L6 is generally long and cylindrical, a 5881 is shorter than a 6L6 and stubbier, a KT66 is sort of "coke bottle" shaped.

tonally, 6L6's sound clearer and sparklier, while the 5881's sound warmer and smoother.  if i were to make a comparison, 6L6's sound more "blackface fender", while 5881's sound more "tweed fender".  KT66's, on the other hand, are more desirable for their smooth grind.  a benchmark reference for this is john mayall's bluesbreakers's "beano" album, where clapton used a KT66 loaded marshall.  purists will argue that no amp can get this tone without being loaded with KT66's.

to sum it up, the names (e.g. "6L6", "5881", "KT66") are more than just differences in how people call the same kind of tube.  of course, this distinction isn't as evident since the vacuum tube's most significant purpose right now is for audio, and


Quote from: markflo
for example...the ECC83...another name for the 12ax7...but some would argue that ECC83's are more british sounding...therefore, different...thing is...that's what the british called their 12ax7's...so now, the name ECC83 name is associated with british/european tubes...


unlike the 6L6 and its variants, the terms "12ax7" and "ECC83" refers to the same tube, and differs only in how americans and the british call it.  in this case,  it is appropriate to say both tubes are the same, simply because they are.  a fairer comparison for these types of tubes would be, say, between a 12ax7 and a 12at7 or 12au7 (interchangeable, but with different gain).

Quote from: markflo
so, same thing...same family...different tonalities...


there you said it.  they are from the same family.  but let me qualify this by saying they are not the same thing.  i suppose the best term to use for this is that they are "equivalent" to each other.  to say these different names all refer to the same banana is an oversimplification.

hopefully, i was able to clarify my earlier post.

cheers.

Offline extreme16199

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« Reply #134 on: March 24, 2006, 06:19:36 PM »
Quote from: sonnyrayvaughn
Quote from: extreme16199
Quote from: markflo
not entirely true either...i have a GT 6L6GE and it's 25 watts. 5881 is just the industrial name for the 6L6...another name for it would be KT66...or in Mullard's case, when they came out with their version of 6L6...they called it the EL37...


Quote from: skunkyfunk
Quote from: sonnyrayvaughn
6L6's are the same tube type as 5881's... 5881 number was just used because it used to be only available as a military tube...maybe there are differences in "current" or "voltage" with 6l6's but, so are all other 6l6 types naman are different with each other...

now for Fender with EL34's.. meron ba nun?


Actually, 5881s and 6L6s are direct-drops, but 5881s are 25W tubes while 6L6's are 30W tubes.  My tube handbook says it.


5881's, 6L6's, and KT66's, while generally interchangeable, are not one and the same.  from it's physical appearance alone, there is already a difference.  tonally, they also differ.


they are not one and the same.. yun nga! even different type of 6l6's are not one and the same... gets??


sorry if it wasn't able to explain my point.  kindly check my reply to mark.  also, the reason why i said "they are not one and the same" is because earlier posts have stated that they (e.g. 6L6, 5881, and KT66) are.

cheers.

Offline skunkyfunk

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« Reply #135 on: March 24, 2006, 10:29:14 PM »
Quote from: markflo
Quote
I am also not discounting the possibility that Venus Isle might have a lousy amp specially one of the lower end ones of Peavey, Marshall or Fender. Kung ganoon, talagang talo sila sa Diezel.


I've heard Venus Isle play in his rig ...and he sounds awesome... and that was a decade ago...I can only begin to imagine how much better sounding he has gotten over the years...

You on the other hand, oasgomez...none of us has heard play...even with your uber rig...

Venus Isle = Sounds awesome +1
Oasgomez = Silence, refuses to post clips ZERO

So, having said that...guys...who do you think sounds better?

Venus Isle can probably whip your butt musically with one hand tied behind his back...and without even trying or breaking a sweat...

Oh, by the way he uses the JSX...

I think OASgomez wasn't given any toys by his mommy when he was younger...hence...the complex...  :D  :D  :D


Tone and technique are mutually exclusive, but strongly related.  

The JSX was too fizzy for me.  But that's just me.

Offline skunkyfunk

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« Reply #136 on: March 24, 2006, 11:30:07 PM »
Eto na ang LO-FI sample sound ng Herbie ni oasgomez, aka 'The Tone Nazi'.  This was recorded using a Sony Ericsson W800i so pardon for the bad quality.  But then, many claim that the best guitar sounds can be heard in the "telephone bandpass" range.  

Always remember that guitar sound recordings are always less-than-perfect reproductions of the actual source, so what you hear is not necessarily how it sounds in front of the cab.  In this sample, the phone was placed about 1 and a half meters away from the cabs... ;)

http://www.soundclick.com/util/downloadSong.cfm?ID=3688552&key=0779617E-4

Offline markflo

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« Reply #137 on: March 25, 2006, 12:42:25 AM »
equivalent = same

"equivalent" just has more letters and therefore, is harder to spell :)

actually mas malaki pa ang pinagkaiba ng 6L6A , B at 6L6GC kesa sa pinagkaiba ng 6L6GC sa 5881...

these are all different companies who manufactured the same tube, but of course, with different specs, different materials...etc etc...but they ARE the same TYPE of tube. yun lang po...bow...

i actually had this discussion with a friend of mine regarding preamp tubes naman...heheh...the discussion hasn't ended yet! we just both got too tired of it...haha...

i get your point though...and it's a good one...but it think it's overspecifying the 6L6...too confusing...hehehe

Quote from: extreme16199
Quote from: markflo
of course, there are tonal & visual differences...even with 2 different branded 6L6's...there are always tonal & visual differences...


of course, this is true.  sorry i didn't elaborate further.  it was very late when i posted.

allow me to explain.  let's use 6L6 as the baseline and say a 6L6 is a regular 6L6 as we know it.  5881's are built to be sturdier and to fit smaller spaces than regular 6L6's.  on the other hand, KT66's are the european version of the 6L6.  in other words, each type was constructed with a specific purpose in mind (audio is only one among many purposes).  furthermore, during the heyday of vacuum tubes, tubes were made with little regard to their tonality since they were used for different applications anyway (e.g. military, industrial, electronic, consumer, etc.).  couple this with the rated plate voltage the tubes can handle, not all of these tubes can used interchangeably without biasing the amp (or not at all, if the amp has very high plate voltage and the amp has no bias control).  from this, it can be gathered that the aforementioned tubes are not the same.  the risk in assuming that they are one and the same is the potential of shortening the tube's life, frying the tube, and much worse, damaging the amp.

as for the physical appearance, a 6L6 is generally long and cylindrical, a 5881 is shorter than a 6L6 and stubbier, a KT66 is sort of "coke bottle" shaped.

tonally, 6L6's sound clearer and sparklier, while the 5881's sound warmer and smoother.  if i were to make a comparison, 6L6's sound more "blackface fender", while 5881's sound more "tweed fender".  KT66's, on the other hand, are more desirable for their smooth grind.  a benchmark reference for this is john mayall's bluesbreakers's "beano" album, where clapton used a KT66 loaded marshall.  purists will argue that no amp can get this tone without being loaded with KT66's.

to sum it up, the names (e.g. "6L6", "5881", "KT66") are more than just differences in how people call the same kind of tube.  of course, this distinction isn't as evident since the vacuum tube's most significant purpose right now is for audio, and


Quote from: markflo
for example...the ECC83...another name for the 12ax7...but some would argue that ECC83's are more british sounding...therefore, different...thing is...that's what the british called their 12ax7's...so now, the name ECC83 name is associated with british/european tubes...


unlike the 6L6 and its variants, the terms "12ax7" and "ECC83" refers to the same tube, and differs only in how americans and the british call it.  in this case,  it is appropriate to say both tubes are the same, simply because they are.  a fairer comparison for these types of tubes would be, say, between a 12ax7 and a 12at7 or 12au7 (interchangeable, but with different gain).

Quote from: markflo
so, same thing...same family...different tonalities...


there you said it.  they are from the same family.  but let me qualify this by saying they are not the same thing.  i suppose the best term to use for this is that they are "equivalent" to each other.  to say these different names all refer to the same banana is an oversimplification.

hopefully, i was able to clarify my earlier post.

cheers.
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt. - Abraham Lincoln

Offline PRSMan

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« Reply #138 on: March 25, 2006, 01:08:16 AM »
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Eto na ang LO-FI sample sound ng Herbie ni oasgomez, aka 'The Tone Nazi'.  This was recorded using a Sony Ericsson W800i so pardon for the bad quality.  But then, many claim that the best guitar sounds can be heard in the "telephone bandpass" range.  

Always remember that guitar sound recordings are always less-than-perfect reproductions of the actual source, so what you hear is not necessarily how it sounds in front of the cab.  In this sample, the phone was placed about 1 and a half meters away from the cabs... ;)


what's the point of posting sound clips when you won't get to appreciate the real quality anyway?

Offline skunkyfunk

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« Reply #139 on: March 25, 2006, 01:13:09 AM »
Quote from: PRSMan
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Eto na ang LO-FI sample sound ng Herbie ni oasgomez, aka 'The Tone Nazi'.  This was recorded using a Sony Ericsson W800i so pardon for the bad quality.  But then, many claim that the best guitar sounds can be heard in the "telephone bandpass" range.  

Always remember that guitar sound recordings are always less-than-perfect reproductions of the actual source, so what you hear is not necessarily how it sounds in front of the cab.  In this sample, the phone was placed about 1 and a half meters away from the cabs... ;)


what's the point of posting sound clips when you won't get to appreciate the real quality anyway?


Even a crapload of mics like an SM57/E609/414 through a Neve 1073 through a Protools HD3 Rig would still not get a good reproduction of the amp, because there is a processed sound due to mic placement and how you mix mics.

My point is, you can hear the 'voice' of the amp even in a low-bandwidth recording.  Parang tao.  Hindi naman tayo lahat magkaboses sa telepono diba? Lo-fi pero recognizeable pa rin.  And since telephones usually roll off at around 4kHz and 200Hz, you still get a decent glimpse of the guitar speaker range...

Offline stratman1

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« Reply #140 on: March 25, 2006, 01:16:13 AM »
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Eto na ang LO-FI sample sound ng Herbie ni oasgomez, aka 'The Tone Nazi'.  This was recorded using a Sony Ericsson W800i so pardon for the bad quality.  But then, many claim that the best guitar sounds can be heard in the "telephone bandpass" range.  

Always remember that guitar sound recordings are always less-than-perfect reproductions of the actual source, so what you hear is not necessarily how it sounds in front of the cab.  In this sample, the phone was placed about 1 and a half meters away from the cabs... ;)

http://www.soundclick.com/util/downloadSong.cfm?ID=3688552&key=0779617E-4


Si Alex ba ang nag gigitara, o ikaw?

Offline markflo

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« Reply #141 on: March 25, 2006, 01:17:01 AM »
if you can't even record it ...or if it's TOO good to be heard on a record...what's the point of spending $4K on it?
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt. - Abraham Lincoln

Offline stratman1

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« Reply #142 on: March 25, 2006, 01:22:18 AM »
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Quote from: PRSMan
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Eto na ang LO-FI sample sound ng Herbie ni oasgomez, aka 'The Tone Nazi'.  This was recorded using a Sony Ericsson W800i so pardon for the bad quality.  But then, many claim that the best guitar sounds can be heard in the "telephone bandpass" range.  

Always remember that guitar sound recordings are always less-than-perfect reproductions of the actual source, so what you hear is not necessarily how it sounds in front of the cab.  In this sample, the phone was placed about 1 and a half meters away from the cabs... ;)


what's the point of posting sound clips when you won't get to appreciate the real quality anyway?


Even a crapload of mics like an SM57/E609/414 through a Neve 1073 through a Protools HD3 Rig would still not get a good reproduction of the amp, because there is a processed sound due to mic placement and how you mix mics.

My point is, you can hear the 'voice' of the amp even in a low-bandwidth recording.  Parang tao.  Hindi naman tayo lahat magkaboses sa telepono diba? Lo-fi pero recognizeable pa rin.  And since telephones usually roll off at around 4kHz and 200Hz, you still get a decent glimpse of the guitar speaker range...


I hear it. Don't get me wrong. I know Diezel is a very nice, hi end amp but it's been a while since i've hear of one personally. But from what you recorded, which is good for using your phone, and what i've heard from marc seal vdo clip, to me the herbert doesn't really shock me. Yes, it's got all the bells and whistles, felxibility and good sound, but so does other amps out there. I'd say I have to listen to it personally, maybe in a couple of days. THAT'S JUST MY HUMBLE OPINION, hehehe :lol:

Offline skunkyfunk

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« Reply #143 on: March 25, 2006, 01:23:26 AM »
Quote from: markflo
if you can't even record it ...or if it's TOO good to be heard on a record...what's the point of spending $4K on it?


Don't get me wrong.  I'll give you an analogy.  Why would I spend $4000 for a DW drum kit if I can use a $800 Mapex M Kit? They have a price difference of $3200, but say you would hear a recording of both with the same mic setup, they would not sound that far from each other.  Moreso, you would not hear the $3200 difference.  However, behind the kit, the difference is huge!  But still it is dependent on the player's taste.  

If you want to make the most out of a $4k amp, play with it to death.  Hire a roadie and bring it to gigs.  Duh, you can afford a $4k amp but can't afford a roadie?

Always remember there is PLAYER PERSPECTIVE and AUDIENCE PERSPECTIVE.  When you see Carlos Santana move knobs on his guitar every so often, do you hear much differences in the tone?  No.  But for Carlos it makes a huge difference because his playing dynamics gets affected whenever he rolls a volume or tone knob once in a while.

Offline markflo

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« Reply #144 on: March 25, 2006, 01:27:08 AM »
even if you played the living crap out of it live...it's still not worth the $3200 more...that's just plain crazy...it sounds like someone's compensating for whatever he or she is lacking...
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt. - Abraham Lincoln

Offline skunkyfunk

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« Reply #145 on: March 25, 2006, 01:32:36 AM »
Quote from: markflo
even if you played the living crap out of it live...it's still not worth the $3200 more...that's just plain crazy...it sounds like someone's compensating for whatever he or she is lacking...


Drummers would agree that a Pearl Masters custom sounds much better than a Pearl Export kit.  But it is still how the drummer uses the kit.  Dennis Chambers would sound much better behind the export than some newbie behind the Master's Custom.

Same thing with guitar gear.  Heck, it is overkill to get a $4k amp if you suck with a $100 amp.  But still you cannot deny that there is a SATISFACTION-PRICE curve.  But when you go ultra-high end, the returns diminish...

Offline skunkyfunk

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« Reply #146 on: March 25, 2006, 01:42:04 AM »
Quote from: markflo
even if you played the living crap out of it live...it's still not worth the $3200 more...that's just plain crazy...it sounds like someone's compensating for whatever he or she is lacking...


The bottomline is you have to be inspired to play.  I don't think Neil Peart would prefer a Fernando kit for gigs, but surely he'll smoke through it.  MOreso with his DW sig model kit.

And also, there is such a thing as a bare minimum.  If 'tone' was really just in the fingers, why would people want to upgrade and upgrade gear until they get satisfied?  Then look back at the gear you used to own.  Maybe you would start ditching some for good.

Offline skunkyfunk

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« Reply #147 on: March 25, 2006, 01:50:50 AM »
Quote from: stratman1
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Eto na ang LO-FI sample sound ng Herbie ni oasgomez, aka 'The Tone Nazi'.  This was recorded using a Sony Ericsson W800i so pardon for the bad quality.  But then, many claim that the best guitar sounds can be heard in the "telephone bandpass" range.  

Always remember that guitar sound recordings are always less-than-perfect reproductions of the actual source, so what you hear is not necessarily how it sounds in front of the cab.  In this sample, the phone was placed about 1 and a half meters away from the cabs... ;)

http://www.soundclick.com/util/downloadSong.cfm?ID=3688552&key=0779617E-4


Si Alex ba ang nag gigitara, o ikaw?


Does that matter?  :D

Offline Phil

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« Reply #148 on: March 25, 2006, 02:04:07 AM »
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Duh, you can afford a $4k amp but can't afford a roadie?
you'd be surprise how much rodies make here, dude....it's like a career here.

 ...besides you only spend $4k once for the amp.
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Offline skunkyfunk

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« Reply #149 on: March 25, 2006, 02:09:05 AM »
Quote from: Phil
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Duh, you can afford a $4k amp but can't afford a roadie?
you'd be surprise how much rodies make here, dude....it's like a career here.

 ...besides you only spend $4k once for the amp.


OH GOD I WANNA BE A ROADIE IN CA!   (Seriously)