Ano ba sa iyo ang gitarang may hiyaw?

[magtataho7]

interesting read:

http://www.derek-hasted.co.uk/faqs/tone-production/

Now that was mind-clearing. Thank you

So you are basically saying that hiyaw comes from an instrument that kills off the fundamentals early and emphasizes the high overtones? Man, i would LOVE to hear this for myself..

[nathanmanansala]

Now that was mind-clearing. Thank you

So you are basically saying that hiyaw comes from an instrument that kills off the fundamentals early and emphasizes the high overtones? Man, i would LOVE to hear this for myself..

i don't think i want it fading the fundamental too early. i want that ringing two thirds of the way, i think.

if a guitar does it too soon, some would classify it as a "dead spot" on the neck. one that can't be cured by a proper setup and component changes.

[Pakantone]

Now that was mind-clearing. Thank you

So you are basically saying that hiyaw comes from an instrument that kills off the fundamentals early and emphasizes the high overtones? Man, i would LOVE to hear this for myself..

MUST WATCH AND HEAR the overtones. This makes me think kung pati amp meron din bang hiyaw? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSCh-oENChE

[magtataho7]

That being said, it's apparently clear that guitars which have "hiyaw" are very few and far in between, considering all the factors that make them sound?

Or maybe it's just a matter of taste that different styles of playing need different overtones emphasized? I don't believe the concept of hiyaw would not apply very well to metal, djent, shoegaze, etc, where certain frequencies need to surface to create brutal, beefy, or chimey base tone, but it would be very desirable for leadwork, blues, fusion etc... Some people desire mahogany or koa guitars for their "growl" (i believe it's hiyaw in the midrange) naww that's just my imagination talking. I'm in no way a gear expert

some "magical" guitars do it all over the neck and some sustain then transition from the fundamental tone into those overtones consistently. on some guitars, those overtones dont sustain too long. some people like the overtones to stay long, some prefer the guitar to hold the fundamental tone, some like a good mix of both. this is why sustainer systems have switches that allows you to choose what tones or overtones the sustainer will be holding.

some ears will like it, some wont. it certainly isn't an indicator of desireability. no more than the color of the finish or the type of knobs used.

I didn't see that point of yours... good read!

MUST WATCH AND HEAR the overtones. This makes me think kung pati amp meron din bang hiyaw? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSCh-oENChE

That's a nice 3d tone man... I don't know if that's hiyaw, but I believe that those overtones can be a hindrance in your playing  I think the amp only amplifies the hiyaw of the guitar.

[spetsnaz1123]

an attempt at cutting through the BS and being completely objective about "hiyaw":

i think what Alex is referring to when he first started calling it "hiyaw" is yung way some guitars emphasize higher overtones and sustain them longer than the fundamental tones. strings naturally vibrate in more than one frequency and you can hear the higher pitched ones as a note decays. some guitars DO tend to hold those tones longer than others.

yung natural harmonics you can play on the 12th, 7th and 5th frets of the guitar? those harmonics are usually present on every note in the guitar. its just that you hear the loudest one (the fundamental tone, which is the biggest ossilation) first then it decays into the harmonics as different portions of the string go into smaller ossilations, like in a natural harmonic sa 12th fret where you have the string vibrating between the nut to 12th fret as 1 node then another between the 12th fret to bridge as another node. then those decay into smaller nodes.

take a guitar on a stand, plick an open string. you'll hear the fundamental tone (the first "BOONNNNGGG...") then decay into a higher pitched, softer tone (the "NNNGGG...") at the tail of the note. thats usuallly the equivalent in pitch to one of those natural harmonics.

i've had a few guitars where the first tone dies out too fast (for me) and fades into those higher overtones ON SPECIFIC NOTES. like the washburn ct2q i sold to veggie joe years back. it did that on Bb but not all Bb notes. just the one on the 1st string, 6th fret. and on the 2nd string, 11th fret. and on the 3rd string, 15th fret. THAT note. it wasnt a function of setting it up right to get the note to ring out clearly. tune the guitar half a step down and the magic note would move up a fret. THAT guitar was doing crazy things with THAT note.

some "magical" guitars do it all over the neck and some sustain then transition from the fundamental tone into those overtones consistently. on some guitars, those overtones dont sustain too long. some people like the overtones to stay long, some prefer the guitar to hold the fundamental tone, some like a good mix of both. this is why sustainer systems have switches that allows you to choose what tones or overtones the sustainer will be holding.

some ears will like it, some wont. it certainly isn't an indicator of desireability. no more than the color of the finish or the type of knobs used.

I think I have like this on my cheap yamaha EG. When I brought the guitar to Elegee for upgrades and all were done, Jon showed me where this 'hot spot' on the neck and it is on the 8th fret of the B string if I am not mistaken, when you hit the note on this spot it sustains like crazy with that harmonic tone, but unfortunately it is only on that spot and nowhere else on the fretboard...I guess it is not magical hehehe

[Pakantone]

And lastly, granting that we can line up all the guitars in the world, and sort the ones with 'hiyaw' and those that do not,  and the salesman wants to charge an extra $2000 for the ones that have it, is it worth it?  What about at an extra $1k?  Or extra $800?

I probably pay an extra $1k for the best guitar  sorted in a thousand others. And this best guitar must be picked by the best luthier and it must pass firemodel hiyaw factor

[IncX]

my EBMM bass has that on the 6th fret of the low E string. when i hit that spot, the sound is really big and it makes things vibrate ... its kinda annoying at times cause it makes you sound uneven during recordings

[magtataho7]

Well I guess in wood guitars there are dead notes, wolf notes, hiyaw notes, etc.

When we discuss this concept I'm starting to put my faith in synthetics (ex. Flaxwood) since their production methods are much more consistent than the varied organic materials used in standard guitars.

my EBMM bass has that on the 6th fret of the low E string. when i hit that spot, the sound is really big and it makes things vibrate ... its kinda annoying at times cause it makes you sound uneven during recordings

Sir, i have read somewhere that dampening strings between the nut and tuners may help,

[bugsui]

wala pagasa thread na to, wala tatangapin si fm55, kung di yung na set nya na sa utak nya, maraming di papayag siyempre, kasi valid naman talaga mga points nila, ganun talaga, dami maganda points na na-raise dito kaya ok na din! I lock na kaya? ang bilis lumaki nung thread, sayang space ng forum, hirap na nga imaintain ng admin.

ps. kilala nyo naman si fm55, ganyan talaga sya mga bro, wag na natin patulan.

[freedom04]

HIYAW is subjective, UNLESS someone can give me a SCIENTIFC BASIS na hindi un SUBJECTIVE at OBJECTIVE yun. Our ears hear differently, may differences yan, what may sound good to you may sound bad to me and vice versa. Pwede mong sabihin na may "HIYAW" ang isa mong gitara pero para sa iba walang "HIYAW" ang gitara mo.

[freedom04]

Hiyaw. Pffft. Everyone has their own perception of hiyaw. Kaya never na may nag-agree about this topic. It has been discussed for years pero it always doesn't end up well. If you think your guitar has it, then good. Pero kanino ka ba maniniwala? Sa gitarista na never pa nagkabanda, never performed infront of a live audience, has no talent, never upload demos about gear he's bragging about. My point is, if you don't have talent, I'm not buying your advice.

I agree.

[Boosted]

Daym.. Guys meron talagang guitarang may "hiyaw" like what fm55 is saying.. Kung ndi natin maintindihan un ibig sabihin ndi pa natin narinig kung ano talaga un.. Dali naman matuto e. testing nyo gitarang may hiyaw then compare your guitar kung meron din..

[Polygon]

Para sakin ang hiyaw ay yung naririnig natin sa Daddy Lover and Little Boy.

Check niyo tong video sa bandang 0:46 rinig na rinig yung hiyaw.

[magtataho7]

Eto ang hiyaw para sakin.

Sir fm55! Patest ng guitars mo.

[firemodel55]

Eto ang hiyaw para sakin.

Sir fm55! Patest ng guitars mo.

Sure... Punta ka lang kay Sir Arie.  Nandoon ang 335, SG at Gil Yaron ko.

[firemodel55]

wala pagasa thread na to, wala tatangapin si fm55, kung di yung na set nya na sa utak nya, maraming di papayag siyempre, kasi valid naman talaga mga points nila, ganun talaga, dami maganda points na na-raise dito kaya ok na din! I lock na kaya? ang bilis lumaki nung thread, sayang space ng forum, hirap na nga imaintain ng admin.

ps. kilala nyo naman si fm55, ganyan talaga sya mga bro, wag na natin patulan.

bugsui, nasubukan mo na ba?  I appreciate the other points of people because I went thru those.  Ang problema hindi nila matanggap na may ibang experiensiya na mas maganda.

[firemodel55]

HIYAW is subjective, UNLESS someone can give me a SCIENTIFC BASIS na hindi un SUBJECTIVE at OBJECTIVE yun. Our ears hear differently, may differences yan, what may sound good to you may sound bad to me and vice versa. Pwede mong sabihin na may "HIYAW" ang isa mong gitara pero para sa iba walang "HIYAW" ang gitara mo.

Just go to Arie's house and try my Gil Yaron's configuration now thru my Bruno Super 100.  Its reality and that obvious without having to define what is SUBJECTIVE or OBJECTIVE.  Current success rate 100% of all who try the setup recognize it for what it is.

[firemodel55]

Para sakin ang hiyaw ay yung naririnig natin sa Daddy Lover and Little Boy.

Check niyo tong video sa bandang 0:46 rinig na rinig yung hiyaw.

Nice attempt to define it but on that Mr. Big track, parang sadya na harmonic node na tsempo ito.  Sa guitarang humihiyaw, mas rich pa ang tunog even without the use of harmonic nodes on the string.

[firemodel55]

Pero pwede mong pahiyawin ang gitara kung may pagmamahal ka sa paggigitara.

Kaso may mga gitara na maski na ganong mahilin mo, ayaw talaga magmahal.

[firemodel55]

an attempt at cutting through the BS and being completely objective about "hiyaw":

i think what Alex is referring to when he first started calling it "hiyaw" is yung way some guitars emphasize higher overtones and sustain them longer than the fundamental tones. strings naturally vibrate in more than one frequency and you can hear the higher pitched ones as a note decays. some guitars DO tend to hold those tones longer than others.

yung natural harmonics you can play on the 12th, 7th and 5th frets of the guitar? those harmonics are usually present on every note in the guitar. its just that you hear the loudest one (the fundamental tone, which is the biggest ossilation) first then it decays into the harmonics as different portions of the string go into smaller ossilations, like in a natural harmonic sa 12th fret where you have the string vibrating between the nut to 12th fret as 1 node then another between the 12th fret to bridge as another node. then those decay into smaller nodes.

take a guitar on a stand, plick an open string. you'll hear the fundamental tone (the first "BOONNNNGGG...") then decay into a higher pitched, softer tone (the "NNNGGG...") at the tail of the note. thats usuallly the equivalent in pitch to one of those natural harmonics.

i've had a few guitars where the first tone dies out too fast (for me) and fades into those higher overtones ON SPECIFIC NOTES. like the washburn ct2q i sold to veggie joe years back. it did that on Bb but not all Bb notes. just the one on the 1st string, 6th fret. and on the 2nd string, 11th fret. and on the 3rd string, 15th fret. THAT note. it wasnt a function of setting it up right to get the note to ring out clearly. tune the guitar half a step down and the magic note would move up a fret. THAT guitar was doing crazy things with THAT note.

some "magical" guitars do it all over the neck and some sustain then transition from the fundamental tone into those overtones consistently. on some guitars, those overtones dont sustain too long. some people like the overtones to stay long, some prefer the guitar to hold the fundamental tone, some like a good mix of both. this is why sustainer systems have switches that allows you to choose what tones or overtones the sustainer will be holding.

some ears will like it, some wont. it certainly isn't an indicator of desireability. no more than the color of the finish or the type of knobs used.

Nice.  Though I would like to say that it does indicate desirability for me.  Usually guitars with hiyaw, have better sustain, a more vocal character, pleasing overtones, richer chords, more defined pick attack, easier to play, stay in tune better and have necks that don't warp.  They also require you to use less gain because they are inherently rich sounding and are very responsive to your FINGERS.

[gainsucker]

Kaso may mga gitara na maski na ganong mahilin mo, ayaw talaga magmahal.

TRUE.... sa classifieds ang bagsak.

[harusameku]

  mga gitarang naka Floating Double Locking Tremolo bridge ayan talaga humihiyaw hahahaha 

[caloyness]

mga gitarang naka Floating Double Locking Tremolo bridge ayan talaga humihiyaw hahahaha 

hahaha literal na humihiyaw.... 

[Burogy]

Sir Firemodel,

may tanong lang po ako


sabihin  nating nagpunta ako dun sa lugar na may gitarang may "hiyaw" at na experience ko ang "hiyaw" na sinasabi, makakutulong po ba ito sa pag gigitara ko? agree ako na kung meron man neto ito ay isang ibang experience, but this will make me a better musician?

Maririnig din po ba ang "hiyaw" kung isasaksak mo yung gitara sa kahit anong amplifier?

kung sakali naman pong isa ako sa sa mga piling nilalang sa mundo na na may gitarang may "hiyaw" ma itratranslate ko po ba sa audience ko ito? ( asawa, nanay, o 10,000 tao sa loob ng isang malaking venue). Maririnig ba nila ang "hiyaw" neto kung idadagdag na natin tunog ng tambol, baho, keyboard, vocals at yung sigawan ng tao?

in short bakit kailangan malaman namin ang hiyaw? para di kami kamo madala ng commercialism? ikaw na rin kasi sir nagsabi na nasa maliit na porsyento lang ng ginawang gitara sa mundo ang meron neto, para kasi sa aming musikero, o nagsisimulang musikero o plain hobbyist na katulad ko, parang di na praktikal na hanapin pa eto.  Dont get me wrong, kahit hobbyist lang po ako, gusto ko rin po ng mgandang tunog or tone, pero hanapin ang " magical " guitar na may hiyaw..mas maganda na lang po sigurong i spend ko yung time sa pag praktis at pag tugtog ng musika. Which most of us, hindi naman po lahat, ay iyon ang dahilan ng pagbili ng gitara. To play music sa kwarto o sa harap ng 10,000 audience.

Walang disrespeto sa gearheads or mga taong bumibili ng gears, mamahalin o hindi para hanapin ang tone, personal satisfaction, hiyaw etc. It's your choice and i honestly respect that.


eto po ay isang honest question at akong intensyon na masama. Di ko na rin po ako guamit ng PM kasi sa personal kong opinyon, mas magandang masagot ito in a public forum.

Regards,

Bong

[firemodel55]

Sir Firemodel, (Bong, I will do my best to answer your questions but all my answers are not comparable to the actual experience.  I do consider this line of questioning interesting but naive.  Its like building a case against hiyaw because either a guitar does not have it or a person is lacking experience of the reality.)

may tanong lang po ako


sabihin  nating nagpunta ako dun sa lugar na may gitarang may "hiyaw" at na experience ko ang "hiyaw" na sinasabi, makakutulong po ba ito sa pag gigitara ko? (Yes.) agree ako na kung meron man neto ito ay isang ibang experience, but this will make me a better musician? (Yes.)

Maririnig din po ba ang "hiyaw" kung isasaksak mo yung gitara sa kahit anong amplifier?  (Yes specially against another guitar without hiyaw.  However some amps seem to have more of a disposition to hiyaw than others.)

kung sakali naman pong isa ako sa sa mga piling nilalang sa mundo na na may gitarang may "hiyaw" ma itratranslate ko po ba sa audience ko ito? ( asawa, nanay, o 10,000 tao sa loob ng isang malaking venue). (YES) Maririnig ba nila ang "hiyaw" neto kung idadagdag na natin tunog ng tambol, baho, keyboard, vocals at yung sigawan ng tao? (YES.  An observation is that guitars with hiyaw seem to cut thru the band mix better.)

in short bakit kailangan malaman namin ang hiyaw? (Its what makes guitars magical instruments because its NOT easily created or replicated.) para di kami kamo madala ng commercialism? ikaw na rin kasi sir nagsabi na nasa maliit na porsyento lang ng ginawang gitara sa mundo ang meron neto, para kasi sa aming musikero, o nagsisimulang musikero o plain hobbyist na katulad ko, parang di na praktikal na hanapin pa eto.  (You have not heard it yet so don't judge na hindi praktikal.) Dont get me wrong, kahit hobbyist lang po ako, gusto ko rin po ng mgandang tunog or tone, pero hanapin ang " magical " guitar na may hiyaw..mas maganda na lang po sigurong i spend ko yung time sa pag praktis at pag tugtog ng musika. (Which is a different issue.  No amount of praktis or tugtog will give your guitar hiyaw kung wala itong hiyaw.)  Which most of us, hindi naman po lahat, ay iyon ang dahilan ng pagbili ng gitara. To play music sa kwarto o sa harap ng 10,000 audience. (I agree.  Kaso karmihan ay bibili ng more than one guitar.  Eh kung playing lang pwede na isang gitara.  Ang kakainis pa eh ganyan ang reasoning pero pinipili ang gitara.  So ano nga ba talaga? Is it just playin or mahalaga rin sa inyo ang magandang gitara pagbumili?)

Walang disrespeto sa gearheads or mga taong bumibili ng gears, mamahalin o hindi para hanapin ang tone, personal satisfaction, hiyaw etc. It's your choice and i honestly respect that. (Agree.)


eto po ay isang honest question at akong intensyon na masama. Di ko na rin po ako guamit ng PM kasi sa personal kong opinyon, mas magandang masagot ito in a public forum.

Regards,

Bong