hulika

Author Topic: How do you define a PROFESSIONAL in recording?  (Read 9898 times)

Offline skunkyfunk

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
How do you define a PROFESSIONAL in recording?
« on: March 09, 2007, 10:35:41 AM »
For me, I will never ever call myself a pro unless I:

1.  Have worked with 2" tape and a mixing board with those crazy outboard processors.
2.  Can work without guessing from one cheesy home studio to a high end studio.
3.  Can find the best equipment for a project.
4.  Have a solid background on DSP and acoustics. 
5.  Have professional equipment. 

Offline starfugger

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
Re: How do you define a PROFESSIONAL in recording?
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2007, 11:12:05 AM »
technically a professional is somebody who gets paid for his services.

personally, a pro is anyone good enough to make a broadcast quality mix, with whatever equipment, wherever.


FOR RENT: Canon 550D, Canon 60D, Glidecam (Machinist), Toribio Slider EX with a pair of tripods for mounting, 2 1000W Lights with 9ft stands, Zoom H4, Rode Video Mic, Portable LED Lights 09154574744

Offline abyssinianson

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
Re: How do you define a PROFESSIONAL in recording?
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2007, 11:16:27 AM »
One could call themselves a pro if:

1. They can adapt to the resources of their recording environment AND make the best use of the equipment available, pro-level or not.
2. They can apply music technology theory and fundamental knowledge in acoustics, physics, electrical engineering and music composition to guide the workflow of a recording project.
3. Have the initiative to tackle a variety of projects for the sole purpose of expanding the breadth of their taste in music.
4. Have the ability to juggle PR skills and music production prowess in a variety of situations.
5. Have professional equipment. However, a great pro should not only be able to exploit what makes great gear wonderful, they also need to be confident in their own ability as music enthusiasts to rely on their own CREATIVITY as the impetus for their work. Music - great music - have been made with less than stellar equipment and not all the great gear in the world can cover for a lack of creativity, determination and passion.

Knowing how to work with 2" tape is a requirement for music engineering courses but entirely up to your instructor if they want you to delve in that type of background stuff. I've had instructors that preach knowing it as a foundation and some that believe it is an antiquated part of the recording process. Whatever works, is what I say. Working with tape is certainly good experience and I would advise wrangling with it if you had the chance but you really don't deal with 2" tape unless you mixdown to it. Some people opt for DAT because it is cheaper and can withstand archving much better than 2" tape media. Some studios I;ve worked with do not work with anything other than 2" tape for mixdowns while others are more flexible.

Crazy outboard processors are simulated in your software mixer windows and you just have to know that stuff cold to apply the same type of principle to outboard processor patching because, really, it is the same thing. Patchbays+outboard gear = software mixer routing. It ain't all that glamorous and all you get plenty of is static discharge which always manages to piss me off because I have to tap sh#t with my keys first so I don't get annoying little sparks everytime I touch a metal chassis.
ako si mimordz. 友だちからよろしくです!

Offline skunkyfunk

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
Re: How do you define a PROFESSIONAL in recording?
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2007, 11:19:38 AM »

Crazy outboard processors are simulated in your software mixer windows and you just have to know that stuff cold to apply the same type of principle to outboard processor patching because, really, it is the same thing. Patchbays+outboard gear = software mixer routing. It ain't all that glamorous and all you get plenty of is static discharge which always manages to piss me off because I have to tap sh#t with my keys first so I don't get annoying little sparks everytime I touch a metal chassis.

Yeah, "drag and drop" is the new "patching on a patchbay".

Anyway, I still believe that outboard is best, especially with compressors.  I haven't gotten that phat classic compression with a plugin to date.  But for hard knee, software comps do quite well.


Offline abyssinianson

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
Re: How do you define a PROFESSIONAL in recording?
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2007, 12:01:41 PM »

Crazy outboard processors are simulated in your software mixer windows and you just have to know that stuff cold to apply the same type of principle to outboard processor patching because, really, it is the same thing. Patchbays+outboard gear = software mixer routing. It ain't all that glamorous and all you get plenty of is static discharge which always manages to piss me off because I have to tap sh#t with my keys first so I don't get annoying little sparks everytime I touch a metal chassis.

Yeah, "drag and drop" is the new "patching on a patchbay".

Anyway, I still believe that outboard is best, especially with compressors.  I haven't gotten that phat classic compression with a plugin to date.  But for hard knee, software comps do quite well.



You misunderstood me. I was not saying that the use of outboard processors is replaceable by plugins - no - i said that the concept, specifically the principle of routing, is the same. In fact, you can patch outboard gear through your DAW sequencer by applying a send-return patch to your interface inputs and outputs. Mind you, this is not "drag and drop" because if it were that easy a lot of people whould be getting it right instead of scratching their heads and saying,"You can do that?" If I got a buck for every person who - to this day - remain stumped by Patch Mix, Total Mix or the routing in PT, Logic, Cubase, Sonar or even Digital Performer, I'd be a bloody rich guy. My point is, people need not rely on just outboard gear to be considered pro because, in this and age, you can freely use both as long as you a have a firm grasp of the patchbay concept and the ability of the plugs that you use. The mentaility that once governed analog studios as THE only way to attain pro sounding results is slowly being challenged with every new product that comes out. In my opinion, DSP based plugs are pretty good to the point where you can get great results in your work without fully relying on outboard gear to attain your master ready results. Should you toss out analog gear? Again, this is not what I am advocating. I am just saying that the tools to get the job done are all there and it is up to the engineer to fully exploit the tools to produce a great sounding product. However, knowing your tools first is a must because if you criple yourself by saying outboard gear is the ONLY way to a professional level job title then, you are missing on a whole lot of cool things happening in music technology.

I love outboard gear, I own a few myself. I love the EL Distressor just as much as software compressors because they are there to help me get a job done and I will do what it takes to get a "good sound" rather than limit my tools just to remain faithful to my analog roots. Distressor, Tube Tech, Cranesong, FMR, Waves, Iliosound...they are all tools. Use ém all to do as best of a job as you can.
ako si mimordz. 友だちからよろしくです!


Offline skunkyfunk

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
Re: How do you define a PROFESSIONAL in recording?
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2007, 01:41:45 PM »

Crazy outboard processors are simulated in your software mixer windows and you just have to know that stuff cold to apply the same type of principle to outboard processor patching because, really, it is the same thing. Patchbays+outboard gear = software mixer routing. It ain't all that glamorous and all you get plenty of is static discharge which always manages to piss me off because I have to tap sh#t with my keys first so I don't get annoying little sparks everytime I touch a metal chassis.

Yeah, "drag and drop" is the new "patching on a patchbay".

Anyway, I still believe that outboard is best, especially with compressors.  I haven't gotten that phat classic compression with a plugin to date.  But for hard knee, software comps do quite well.



You misunderstood me. I was not saying that the use of outboard processors is replaceable by plugins - no - i said that the concept, specifically the principle of routing, is the same. In fact, you can patch outboard gear through your DAW sequencer by applying a send-return patch to your interface inputs and outputs. Mind you, this is not "drag and drop" because if it were that easy a lot of people whould be getting it right instead of scratching their heads and saying,"You can do that?" If I got a buck for every person who - to this day - remain stumped by Patch Mix, Total Mix or the routing in PT, Logic, Cubase, Sonar or even Digital Performer, I'd be a bloody rich guy. My point is, people need not rely on just outboard gear to be considered pro because, in this and age, you can freely use both as long as you a have a firm grasp of the patchbay concept and the ability of the plugs that you use. The mentaility that once governed analog studios as THE only way to attain pro sounding results is slowly being challenged with every new product that comes out. In my opinion, DSP based plugs are pretty good to the point where you can get great results in your work without fully relying on outboard gear to attain your master ready results. Should you toss out analog gear? Again, this is not what I am advocating. I am just saying that the tools to get the job done are all there and it is up to the engineer to fully exploit the tools to produce a great sounding product. However, knowing your tools first is a must because if you criple yourself by saying outboard gear is the ONLY way to a professional level job title then, you are missing on a whole lot of cool things happening in music technology.

I love outboard gear, I own a few myself. I love the EL Distressor just as much as software compressors because they are there to help me get a job done and I will do what it takes to get a "good sound" rather than limit my tools just to remain faithful to my analog roots. Distressor, Tube Tech, Cranesong, FMR, Waves, Iliosound...they are all tools. Use ém all to do as best of a job as you can.

Oh I see.  :|  But I think using real patch cables through inserts and patchbays is probably one of the echelons of being a sound engineer.  It can be very intimidating.  Of course the concept in DAWs (whether mixing in the box or hooking the DAW to outboards) is just the same.  I mean, a Pultec TDM plugin just looks the same as the real thing, but I believe that the experience with the real thing is just different.


Offline chuck sabbath

  • Forum Fanatic
  • ****
Re: How do you define a PROFESSIONAL in recording?
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2007, 05:04:55 PM »
i dont really get the point of this post...surely the only prerequisite to being a "pro" is the ability to deliver the product to the client's satisfaction...hopefully this ability stems from long experience with suitable equipment whether hardware or software, hi-end or entry level and yes a thorough grounding in audio fundamentals

the "best equipment for the project" is a bit of a grey area..."the best solution given the available budget" would be more realistic

as to "professional equipment"...anything can be considered professional equipment...les claypool (while not a "pro" engineer) uses a cheap alesis limiter on several "pro" releases

whether the engineer in question has spent time on a 2" tape machine and outboard gear is more and more irrelevant as time goes on as abyss said...

im with starfugger and abyss here...its the indian not the arrow...
In an expanding universe, time is on the side of the outcast. Those who once inhabited the suburbs of human contempt find that without changing their address they eventually live in the metropolis

Offline KitC

  • Prime Moderator
  • *****
Re: How do you define a PROFESSIONAL in recording?
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2007, 06:06:53 PM »
I think obsessing too much over gear limits one's abilities. It's having knowledge and the ability to use (and sometimes abuse) it which is what makes one rise above the rest. Of course, having a good ear is a pre-requisite to our chosen profession and good gear can certainly make our job easier. But for those of us who can't afford the Manley's, Neve's, Apogee's and what have you, the ability to transcend your gear's limitations and take it in directions which the manufacturer never thought of should be considered a challenge to one's abilities.

I agree with chuck, abyss and starfugger on their views; chuck especially on the use of not-so-professional equipment because it's often the driver, not the car (and in chuck's case, the indian not the arrow) that gets us to our destination. One thing I do know, what separates the top engineers is their attention to detail, the level of which we all hope to attain.

So for all of those making good music (and pleasing your clients) on your Behringers, Alesis, and other affordable equipment, I salute you.
Sonar 4.04PE/5.2PE/7.02PE/8.31 PE, Project 5 v2.5.1, EmulatorX 1.5, Cubase SL2, Ableton Live 7.14,  Intel Q6600 MSI P43 Neo 4Gb Crucial Ballistix Tracer DDR2-800, Emu 1820m, Yamaha DSP Factory, Terratec DMX 6fire

Offline djspit

  • Senior Member
  • ***
Re: How do you define a PROFESSIONAL in recording?
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2007, 06:35:26 PM »
wohoo midi controler at mic lang ang puhunan =)
http://www.facebook.com/djmyke/pages#!/pages/DJMYKE/255868169639 IMAC 24" core2duo Logic Pro 9, Ableton Live 8, Reason 6.0, Apogee Duet2, axiom49,Keystation 88es, Yamaha dx100, Rode NT1a, Yamaha HS80m,Taylor 614, Taylor GS Mini, Fender Telecaster USA. ban

Offline nichteque

  • Senior Member
  • ***
Re: How do you define a PROFESSIONAL in recording?
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2007, 09:15:11 PM »
kapayapaan sa lahat! :) masaklap pero minsan yung mga magagaling eh panay ang pagtapak nila dun sa mga paakyat palang, instead of educating the new blood eh dinodown nalang nila by saying "kelangan mo ng magandang gamit para dito, kung wala kang pambili ng ganito wag nalang." that's sad. lahat naman siguro ng pro nagsisimula din sa pagiging baguhan at lahat din naman dumaan din sa low-end. i mean, what's the point of getting all those neves and apogees kung hindi pa naman fully naiintindihan yung concepts ng linyang ito? i think everything starts with the right education, and buti nga merong mga forum na ganito na nakakatulong sa mga gustong matuto. tsaka buti may mga taong willing talaga magshare ng knowledge nila, without making the newbies feel na "wala ka, ako meron". opinion ko lang guys :)

Offline djspit

  • Senior Member
  • ***
Re: How do you define a PROFESSIONAL in recording?
« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2007, 09:42:44 PM »
ako i enjoy teaching a veteran musician the ropes of music technology.. hehe

kumbaga introducing an easier way sa mga "OLD DOGS" hehe


http://www.facebook.com/djmyke/pages#!/pages/DJMYKE/255868169639 IMAC 24" core2duo Logic Pro 9, Ableton Live 8, Reason 6.0, Apogee Duet2, axiom49,Keystation 88es, Yamaha dx100, Rode NT1a, Yamaha HS80m,Taylor 614, Taylor GS Mini, Fender Telecaster USA. ban

Offline KitC

  • Prime Moderator
  • *****
Re: How do you define a PROFESSIONAL in recording?
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2007, 11:26:47 PM »
ako i enjoy teaching a veteran musician the ropes of music technology.. hehe

kumbaga introducing an easier way sa mga "OLD DOGS" hehe


Careful... you thread a fine line... some of the "veterans" here are adept with both new and old technologies, knowledgeable with both tape and protools.
Sonar 4.04PE/5.2PE/7.02PE/8.31 PE, Project 5 v2.5.1, EmulatorX 1.5, Cubase SL2, Ableton Live 7.14,  Intel Q6600 MSI P43 Neo 4Gb Crucial Ballistix Tracer DDR2-800, Emu 1820m, Yamaha DSP Factory, Terratec DMX 6fire

Offline xjepoyx

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
Re: How do you define a PROFESSIONAL in recording?
« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2007, 11:36:09 PM »
ako i enjoy teaching a veteran musician the ropes of music technology.. hehe

kumbaga introducing an easier way sa mga "OLD DOGS" hehe




you mean old people wont be able to learn new technology... hinay hinay ka lang bro... you dont know that most of these "OLD DOGS" you might be refereing to eh wala pa sa kalingkingan ng skills mo sa audio technology... and baka TENGA mo eh di pa trained to do this stuff.

good girls go to heaven. bad girls go to my room!  [/i]

Offline abyssinianson

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
Re: How do you define a PROFESSIONAL in recording?
« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2007, 12:09:53 AM »
ako i enjoy teaching a veteran musician the ropes of music technology.. hehe

kumbaga introducing an easier way sa mga "OLD DOGS" hehe




you mean old people wont be able to learn new technology... hinay hinay ka lang bro... you dont know that most of these "OLD DOGS" you might be refereing to eh wala pa sa kalingkingan ng skills mo sa audio technology... and baka TENGA mo eh di pa trained to do this stuff.



hahaha...jepoy is right. old dogs aren't necessarily resistant to new techniques. in fact, old dogs probably have a lot more perspective to tackle new technology and see what its potential uses might be! The DAWs of today may be a far cry from the Atari and Amiga days of sequencing but the newer stuff still operates on the same principles with a lot more tools to enable producers and engineers to work faster and better. The same applies sa tape din although the process of working with tape is more hands on. Some of the features you have on your DAW sequencer originated from manual tape processing so unless you know what those do, you won't have a good grip on the theory behind getting stuff done in the DAW environment. A large part of studio resource exploitation has to do with building on the firm foundation of fundamental music technlogy knowledge.
ako si mimordz. 友だちからよろしくです!

Offline xjepoyx

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
Re: How do you define a PROFESSIONAL in recording?
« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2007, 12:15:40 AM »
well said mikey! nakakapikon lang talaga binitawan nyang salita... i might say old dogs na rin ako kasi im turning 32 na rin ako hehehe.


@djspit

eto na lang... simpleng simple....

may nag air ka na bang gawa mo personally sa tv o radio...


kung wala pa.... ingat ka muna sa mga post mo....



tsk tsk tsk!!!
good girls go to heaven. bad girls go to my room!  [/i]

Offline djspit

  • Senior Member
  • ***
Re: How do you define a PROFESSIONAL in recording?
« Reply #15 on: March 10, 2007, 12:44:10 AM »
ako i enjoy teaching a veteran musician the ropes of music technology.. hehe

kumbaga introducing an easier way sa mga "OLD DOGS" hehe


Careful... you thread a fine line... some of the "veterans" here are adept with both new and old technologies, knowledgeable with both tape and protools.


ay sorry po.. didnt mean to sound like that... im just referring to my friends..=)
kasi me mga naencounter na kasi ako na mga "stick to the triton" peeps... and havent tried using midi software solutions
http://www.facebook.com/djmyke/pages#!/pages/DJMYKE/255868169639 IMAC 24" core2duo Logic Pro 9, Ableton Live 8, Reason 6.0, Apogee Duet2, axiom49,Keystation 88es, Yamaha dx100, Rode NT1a, Yamaha HS80m,Taylor 614, Taylor GS Mini, Fender Telecaster USA. ban

Offline djspit

  • Senior Member
  • ***
Re: How do you define a PROFESSIONAL in recording?
« Reply #16 on: March 10, 2007, 12:50:50 AM »
ako i enjoy teaching a veteran musician the ropes of music technology.. hehe

kumbaga introducing an easier way sa mga "OLD DOGS" hehe


Careful... you thread a fine line... some of the "veterans" here are adept with both new and old technologies, knowledgeable with both tape and protools.


ay sorry po sir KitC and jepoy.. didnt mean to sound like that...no bad intentions of using OLD DOGS as a negative term. im just referring to my friends..=)
kasi me mga naencounter na kasi ako na mga "stick to the triton" peeps... and havent tried using midi software solutions

magkkwento na nga lang po ako hehehe... para masaya
nakakatrabaho ko si Rannie... parati akong binabara tuwing introduce ko sa kanya ung reason... ayaw nya.. dun pa rin sya sa triton nya... sinasabi ko masmakakatulong un kasi dami na patches ng mga sounds and instruments... and masmadali magrecord kasi nakamidimap ..madali mag ayus ng notes and velocities... when i give my work to him... nagtataka sya kung san nangagaling yung mga bowed strings na makapal...etc..

@edgeofillusion-jepoy
wag naman po mapikon sowi na.. =) 32? bata ka pa naman =)
meron na rin
« Last Edit: March 10, 2007, 12:57:13 AM by djspit »
http://www.facebook.com/djmyke/pages#!/pages/DJMYKE/255868169639 IMAC 24" core2duo Logic Pro 9, Ableton Live 8, Reason 6.0, Apogee Duet2, axiom49,Keystation 88es, Yamaha dx100, Rode NT1a, Yamaha HS80m,Taylor 614, Taylor GS Mini, Fender Telecaster USA. ban

Offline abyssinianson

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
Re: How do you define a PROFESSIONAL in recording?
« Reply #17 on: March 10, 2007, 12:53:10 AM »
ako i enjoy teaching a veteran musician the ropes of music technology.. hehe

kumbaga introducing an easier way sa mga "OLD DOGS" hehe


Careful... you thread a fine line... some of the "veterans" here are adept with both new and old technologies, knowledgeable with both tape and protools.


ay sorry po sir KitC and jepoy.. didnt mean to sound like that... im just referring to my friends..=)
kasi me mga naencounter na kasi ako na mga "stick to the triton" peeps... and havent tried using midi software solutions

@edgeofillusion-jepoy
meron na rin

The triton, MOTIF and Fantom series pianos are pretty nice. I am particularly fond of MOTIF and the S80-S90 series Yamaha keyboards myself. For live performance, these keys rock and they sound pretty good on recordings too.
ako si mimordz. 友だちからよろしくです!

Offline djspit

  • Senior Member
  • ***
Re: How do you define a PROFESSIONAL in recording?
« Reply #18 on: March 10, 2007, 01:06:41 AM »
and yes.. i really earn from what i do...
and i know my works satisfy my ear and my client's ear
but i dont consider myself a "PRO"


may connotation kasi yun eh...iv started recording when i was 16..
now im 23...long way to go pa.. =)

oo nga marami pang kakaining kamote...


kakain ako ng kakain hanggang mabondat...  its an endless learning=)
« Last Edit: March 10, 2007, 01:08:00 AM by djspit »
http://www.facebook.com/djmyke/pages#!/pages/DJMYKE/255868169639 IMAC 24" core2duo Logic Pro 9, Ableton Live 8, Reason 6.0, Apogee Duet2, axiom49,Keystation 88es, Yamaha dx100, Rode NT1a, Yamaha HS80m,Taylor 614, Taylor GS Mini, Fender Telecaster USA. ban

Offline xjepoyx

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
Re: How do you define a PROFESSIONAL in recording?
« Reply #19 on: March 10, 2007, 01:08:07 AM »
its ok...

PEACE!~
good girls go to heaven. bad girls go to my room!  [/i]

Offline skunkyfunk

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
Re: How do you define a PROFESSIONAL in recording?
« Reply #20 on: March 10, 2007, 01:11:41 AM »
ako i enjoy teaching a veteran musician the ropes of music technology.. hehe

kumbaga introducing an easier way sa mga "OLD DOGS" hehe




What the?  I know some old farts had to rely on the "Protools Engineer", but now the same old dogs have already crossed over.  And they are far more advantageous as they have far more experience than most newbies.  No wonder the CD credits haven't changed through the years.

Offline djspit

  • Senior Member
  • ***
Re: How do you define a PROFESSIONAL in recording?
« Reply #21 on: March 10, 2007, 01:13:11 AM »
its ok...

PEACE!~

smyl naman jan hehehe


si rannie raymundo ung old dog haha.. sya agad naisip ko while typing my 1st messege hehehe ...40 na ata un eh hehehe
http://www.facebook.com/djmyke/pages#!/pages/DJMYKE/255868169639 IMAC 24" core2duo Logic Pro 9, Ableton Live 8, Reason 6.0, Apogee Duet2, axiom49,Keystation 88es, Yamaha dx100, Rode NT1a, Yamaha HS80m,Taylor 614, Taylor GS Mini, Fender Telecaster USA. ban

Offline KitC

  • Prime Moderator
  • *****
Re: How do you define a PROFESSIONAL in recording?
« Reply #22 on: March 10, 2007, 01:15:24 AM »
ay sorry po sir KitC and jepoy.. didnt mean to sound like that...no bad intentions of using OLD DOGS as a negative term. im just referring to my friends..=)
kasi me mga naencounter na kasi ako na mga "stick to the triton" peeps... and havent tried using midi software solutions

I like sequencing on my Korg... it's more immediate. And yes, learning is a never ending process. Apology accepted.
Sonar 4.04PE/5.2PE/7.02PE/8.31 PE, Project 5 v2.5.1, EmulatorX 1.5, Cubase SL2, Ableton Live 7.14,  Intel Q6600 MSI P43 Neo 4Gb Crucial Ballistix Tracer DDR2-800, Emu 1820m, Yamaha DSP Factory, Terratec DMX 6fire

Offline djspit

  • Senior Member
  • ***
Re: How do you define a PROFESSIONAL in recording?
« Reply #23 on: March 10, 2007, 01:22:47 AM »
well i never had one.. couldnt afford it before hehehe...
and diba dapat magaling ka magpiano in order to sequence keys/piano sa korg/roland sequncer kbords?


i started with software midi.. and i find it easy to visualize everything... interface friendly over the hardware?  maybe..

thats how i percieve it ..-)
http://www.facebook.com/djmyke/pages#!/pages/DJMYKE/255868169639 IMAC 24" core2duo Logic Pro 9, Ableton Live 8, Reason 6.0, Apogee Duet2, axiom49,Keystation 88es, Yamaha dx100, Rode NT1a, Yamaha HS80m,Taylor 614, Taylor GS Mini, Fender Telecaster USA. ban

Offline xjepoyx

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
Re: How do you define a PROFESSIONAL in recording?
« Reply #24 on: March 10, 2007, 01:25:50 AM »
as Master KitC said... learning is a never ending process, thats why i always play around my old mixes coz everytime im with boss Kit ... i learn something new and i apply it and i can also apply it on the new mixes that were gonna do on this PIMP Records Project.

Im smiling na djspit. no harm done. just review your post before clicking on the button.
good girls go to heaven. bad girls go to my room!  [/i]