I officially declare Zoom as the king of cheese

[stringman]

Since when is going straight to the board an option in recording, anyway? Recording na nga lang e, titipirin mo pa.  

Pwede ka naman mag Sansamp, pwede ka naman mag V-amp, pwede ka naman mag-mic ng real amp, pwede ka naman mag-POD. Heck, pwede ka nga mag-Guitar Rig 3 e.

Aegis? Guitar--->Ds-1--->Mixer? Hahaha...  Straight to the board for the...
EPIC FAIL!

Chromeknive, I know my books well I was a recording engineer way back. What I meant my going straight to the board was using your zoom then go straight to the board.

[stringman]

Francis M's "Luv 4 Lyf" was recorded with an RJ guitar through a Zoom GFX 8 direct to board.

It doesn't sound like Aegis.

Good thing you posted this Perf, naalala mo when I asked you kung ano ginamit mo for this recording.

Skunky hear this recording.

[BAMF]

But that doesn't add up and address the point made.

"Why not just go straight to the board" meant no nothing, no Zoom, and naked, direct to the mixer. i.e. no amp modeling.

The "GFX-8 straight to the board" means amp modeling and recording options from the Zoom unit.

The former is what's supposed to sound like Aegis; not the latter.

Let's do one better. Why not go direct to the DAW ? . Doesn't sound too sarcastic when you consider that the G2.1 has a USB out ano ?

[stringman]

My understanding of going direct to the board is to bypass the guitar amp, hence my reply. And the subject of the whole discussion is Zoom, not the Boss DS-1.


Well, that's a f*ckin cop-out!

If you're all for buying your sound instead of working for it, go on right ahead. But don't tell me that my set of hands are different than anybody else's. And I'm confirming it right now, I don't have special powers.

Don't cite me as an excuse for anybody's ineptitude.

While I'm not striving to sound like Guthrie (never heard of him until around 2005, where'd that comment come from?), I pulled out my sound out of that allegedly crappy Zoom product, despite not going through the "accepted" (sic) signal route.

Good thing Perf understood me when I said go straight to the board. Chromeknive do me a favor, review your books first before you make comments. Tsk tsk tsk tsk.............


I believe recording lies on the ears of the engineer. The best guitar player with the best equipment can enter a studio pero pag di magaling engineer pangit kalalabasan nang recording.

[stringman]

I just don't get it. The discussion is about preferences and what we don't like about Zoom products. Why has this devolved into another "TONE IS IN THE FINGERS" goddamned arguement?

And I don't get it either, the topic here is indeed zoom and not DS-1.

[stringman]

And I'll tell you right now, I have much to learn, I'm young and I know for a clear as night and day fact that you are a better, more experienced guitar player than I am. That's not making an excuse for myself. That's being realistic and true to myself. That's a concept not too hard to swallow, right?


And I seriously take offense in your using the phrase "f*cking cop-out". I have great respect for you but I want you to know that it just sucks for a fan like me to be spoken to like that.

Don't take it personaly, take it at a positive light. You yourself just said you have much to learn and is still young. Read your books and experiment more.

[stringman]

Since we more or less all agree that sound and tone is largely subjective, how can you attempt to disprove our preference for not having Zoom products in our recording chain?

It's because at the start of the topic Skunky said he used a good guitar and a good amp. That's precisely the reason why engineers do mic placements when recording sounds from amplifiers because they want to capture the pure sound of that amp. Needless to say why would you put a multieffect in the chain when the sound you were after was the purity of the guitar and amp. I see the guitar>multieffect>amp chain would be better off as a live setup. But for recording?

Let's analyze the setup of Perf and Skunk..

Perf:

RJ GUITAR>GFX8> DIRECT TO BOARD=Luv4U (A good enough recording worthy of release for the market.)

SKUNK:

GOOD GUITAR (better than RJ I believe)>ZOOM>GOOD AMP (branded and expensive I suppose)= KING OF CHEESE


Analyze it very well Chromeknive, what do you think is wrong?

[stringman]

Let's do one better. Why not go direct to the DAW ? . Doesn't sound too sarcastic when you consider that the G2.1 has a USB out ano ?

Jobet, di kasi na gets ni Chromeknive when I said go straight to the board. Buti si Perf alam na agad yung sinabi ko.

Chromeknive in a recording studio when you say "straight to the board" it means you bypass the amp and not plug your guitar directly to the board "naked". If in any case your effect does not have a direct out, a recording engineer will supply you a direct box to plug in. In any case if you want to plug your guitar straight to the board, again the engineer will supply you a direct box. No engineer would be stupid enough to just plug your guitar to the amp without preamplification.

[digitalcyco]

edited post na eto

two cents lang on Zoom pedals in a live situation

Parang chix yan, ang maganda sa yo, hindi maganda saken.

I certainly can afford and own a lot of pedals but why do I choose to keep my G2 on my signal chain?

Obviously because I found the perfect distortion sound for myself that I cannot cook up with all the dirt pedals I own and all the crazy combinations and GAS ive been through buying pedals here and there. Thats already taking into account I own a good amp and a well-setup guitar.

Zoom pedals sound great... and SHOULD sound great if you know how to tweak it.

its not that i am a cheapskate for owning one, i mean its half-insulting to hear that owning a Zoom pedal makes one a "budget user".

Why purchase a $2,000 MESA-BOOGIE amp if all you do is play small bars and clubs when you can purchase a small unit and have it emulate the amp for as little as $100?

This is the Philippines man, I would understand a guitarist spending $20,000.00 on awesome gear if he was touring the USA opening for Metallica. He needs to sound great.

But for a guitarist playing small weekend bar gigs and home jamming.... pfftttt why spend that much?

So a Zoom pedal, which your average pinoy guitarist can afford, is the logical choice.

It's not about being a cheap on your gear, its called practicality.

my analogy: I don't need to spend Php 2,000 to eat lunch in a classy resto, I can get the same satisfaction with Php 100 eating elsewhere because its more practical.

[FINGERZAP]

Bottom line here is that you cannot actually declare brand X as the king of whatever because what doesn't work for you may excellently work for another.

Whenever I plug in my RG470 through my G7 into my Marshall VS65R, maaan, I'm in heaven na!

[skunkyfunk]

Francis M's "Luv 4 Lyf" was recorded with an RJ guitar through a Zoom GFX 8 direct to board.

And that board was a huge old Soundcraft console through a Studer 2" deck, at Tracks diba?

That signal chain takes out the digital-ness a bit.  But for digital recording, hmmm.... that would be more felt.

It doesn't sound like Aegis.

I think no self-respecting guitarist would want to sound like Aegis unless he played for them.

[skunkyfunk]

[quote author=digitalcyco link=topic=87311.msg1123836#msg1123836
my analogy: I don't need to spend Php 2,000 to eat lunch in a classy resto, I can get the same satisfaction with Php 100 eating elsewhere because its more practical.



[/quote]

I would not like to take my wife or GF to Jollibee for our anniversary or Valentine's day.

Recording sessions ARE hallowed ground.  So if you take this situation as a "regular" situation then it just shows why I have experienced 1,253 guitarplayers coming in like theiy're just going to  a rehearsal studio.

[FINGERZAP]

I think no self-respecting guitarist would want to sound like Aegis unless he played for them.

Naku ha? Lagot ka baka may Aegis fans dito hehe! 

[digitalcyco]

@skunky_funk: well I agree with you in a recording situation a Zoom pedal can only provide decent sound. but my previous post was for the other posters in this thread not the OP  I was referring to a "live" situation (re-read my previous post in reference to previous posts) with a Zoom and why people diss its use.

in a recording situation, i'd go for a POD over a Zoom. well thats all i can get my hands on as of the moment.

rawk \m/

[titser_marco]

@skunky_funk: well I agree with you in a recording situation a Zoom pedal can only provide decent sound. but my previous post was for the other posters in this thread not the OP  I was referring to a "live" situation (re-read my previous post in reference to previous posts) with a Zoom and why people diss its use.

in a recording situation, i'd go for a POD over a Zoom. well thats all i can get my hands on as of the moment.

rawk \m/

But wasn't Skunky referring to a recording context to begin with?

[digitalcyco]

But wasn't Skunky referring to a recording context to begin with?

well yes, but i was posting my two cents on the issue of Zoom pedals being cheap subsititutes to the real thing.

well its a bit slightly OT, but I think my post was still in one way or another related and is still within context of the discussion... at least its not a "+10" post d b?



re-edited my post there btw.

[stringman]

And that board was a huge old Soundcraft console through a Studer 2" deck, at Tracks diba?

That signal chain takes out the digital-ness a bit.  But for digital recording, hmmm.... that would be more felt.
I think no self-respecting guitarist would want to sound like Aegis unless he played for them.

So why would you chain a GOOD GUITAR> ZOOM> A GOOD AMP in the first place? When you know that having this chain guitar> Multieffects> direct to board take out the digitalness a bit.

I think if you wanted the amp in the chain the best thing you did was looped that multieffects in your amp so the natural preamp drive of your amp would come first in your chain and leaving all the modulated effects of your multieffects in the loop.

[titser_marco]

well yes, but i was posting my two cents on the issue of Zoom pedals being cheap subsititutes to the real thing.

well its a bit slightly OT, but I think my post was still in one way or another related and is still within context of the discussion... at least its not a "+10" post d b?

True, true.

[itchybrain]

I'm really enjoying (and learning) from the posts. Let's just not bash other people's music (Aegis). You know waht I mean. You guys are all adults. Please give respect. Nakaka-turn off kasi.

[nathanmanansala]

well its a bit slightly OT, but I think my post was still in one way or another related and is still within context of the discussion... at least its not a "+10" post d b?



re-edited my post there btw.

i normally save my "+1" for threads i dont understand at all. i "+1" the first message i see that isnt written in txtsp34k.

I'm really enjoying (and learning) from the posts. Let's just not bash other people's music (Aegis). You know waht I mean. You guys are all adults. Please give respect. Nakaka-turn off kasi.

whats wrong with Aegis?

worms in can. can opener. go for it.

[kimBuhain]

@skunky, i think you just made your opinion on zoom

i guess you think zoom just plain suck on a recording session right?
if thats it ,thenwe respect your opinion,

personally i had never been to a recording situation,.to tell which gear suck and which not,.

i think the other forumites just gave credits to zoom on a "live" situation

and also we have sir Perf's experience regarding zoom on a  "recording" session

pero overkill lang talaga title ng thread mo eh,para kasing  sinumpa mo talaga ang lahat ng line of products ng ZOOM.    peace sir! 

anyways dami ko natutunan sa discussion na to.

[BAMF]

my analogy: I don't need to spend Php 2,000 to eat lunch in a classy resto, I can get the same satisfaction with Php 100 eating elsewhere because its more practical.

Apart pa sa thought na part of you is not happy when you eat a 2,000 bux meal . Ay OT na anubayan !

Sa recording anyway, I had my first "slap your zoom on your face" experience when we went to starfugger to record our EP. When she saw my Zoom 505-II she went "aayyy". Then she went on about how the quantizing noise of digital effects cannot be cancelled out unlike AC hum and stuff like that. Lucky she had analog pedals available. I believed her, and that was the start of my road to analog effects.

So its not without credence to say that Zooms may sound sucky in recordings. It might do well in electronica songs where the distorted sound sounds  like a Yamaha DX7 . If you're a purist, forget Zooms altogether.

So after watching this thread, it all makes me wonder why we're awaying in here. Skunky thinks it sucks. That's valid. Others think it's practical and sounds good. That's valid too. So on a personal level I ask "WTF kaya ang away dito??".

WHich leads me back to an adage on communication skills. And it goes "the meaning of your communication is the response it gets". Which in lay terms means always think of how the intended reader will "get" what you write, as you write what you write.

Which brings me to thinking...why tf am I going into a discourse on human communications ? This isn't remotely related to guitars ! Oh my rant ! What is this ? Its maybe coz Im stuck here in my classroom waiting for my students to finish their thing as I surf the net and I must be really bored killing the time. Or wait !

Heh. Proud G2 user pa din. O ayan, On-topic na ulit

[deadlifted]

di naman siguro, cguro may ilang factors din..

tweaking, amp, player..

i watched a small gig lang dito sa amin, forgot the band name, i noticed wow good tone buong buo,.. tpos when i get a little closer nakanamp**a naka G9 pala..

pero may ilan rin ako narinig na guitarist na naka G9 pero sheeeeet yung tunog..

merong may sig dito, nasa injan yan wala sa pana.

ganyan rin experience ko. nagmukhang tunog [ice cream] yung G9... tapos yung isa napaka-warm ng G9. tunog [ice cream] na 707... tunog analog na 707.

[Perf_De_Castro]

And that board was a huge old Soundcraft console through a Studer 2" deck, at Tracks diba?

That signal chain takes out the digital-ness a bit.  But for digital recording, hmmm.... that would be more felt.

Aegis also recorded in the same studio through the same board and using the same tape machine. He sounded as he always did

Zoom may not work for you (just like Behringer) but it doesn't mean that they're worthless. 

[FINGERZAP]

Zoom may not work for you (just like Behringer or Boston Eng'g) but it doesn't mean that they're worthless.