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Author Topic: Is it OK to sell DIY clones?  (Read 38367 times)

Offline maxi_musikero

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Re: Is it OK to sell DIY clones?
« Reply #25 on: February 13, 2012, 10:06:35 AM »
this topic will open a can of worms.
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Offline treblinkalovescene

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Re: Is it OK to sell DIY clones?
« Reply #26 on: February 13, 2012, 10:37:17 AM »
I only pay people to do work I can't do for myself. So far, I've only ever had one clone made but that was because I couldn't find an actual 80s Guv'nor. It has its purposes and where I was at the time, I didn't have the funds or the time to order from abroad, nor did I know anyone actually selling one. Like Cayle said, as long as no one calls dibs on the design and calls it an invention. I don't know how to solder so I can't just take a madbean schem and make my own pedals.















...but what if we take lots of odd stompboxes, tweak them and put them into huge enclosures personalized with our names on them and charge exorbitantly?
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Offline KASALANAN

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Re: Is it OK to sell DIY clones?
« Reply #27 on: February 13, 2012, 10:49:01 AM »
im actually waiting for our local DIYers to comment on this thread to make it even more interesting para marinig ko side nila :)

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Offline milzer

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Re: Is it OK to sell DIY clones?
« Reply #28 on: February 13, 2012, 11:54:42 AM »
im actually waiting for our local DIYers to comment on this thread to make it even more interesting para marinig ko side nila :)

HANEP! trending topic!

nagcomment na sila bro..  <_<

Offline Musikerochan

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Re: Is it OK to sell DIY clones?
« Reply #29 on: February 13, 2012, 12:13:28 PM »
about time this is discussed. ang problema lang kasi dito, lalabas na yung mga nagpupumilit magmulat ng totoo eh magkakaroon ng "holier than thou" tag, when in fact the only thing we're doing is inform the buying public.

BTT: here's my personal stance regarding this matter.

1) it's OKAY to sell clones. you can copy the hell out of the tubescreamer and you wont be guilty legally. it's ok also to build and sell derivatives/tweaked circuits. you can take the schematic of any circuit but you still wont be liable unless there's a patent. too bad for effects pedal purposes, circuits are rarely patented. (short version only, read more at FSB and other sites).

2) it's not ok to use project build files from the internet and sell for profit (read: stamping your own BRAND). that includes mainly the unfair use of pcb for commercial purposes, unless you work out an agreement with the DESIGNER of the pcb. coming up with your Brand/Company? DESIGN your own pcb.

3) you can opt to forego No. 2 if you ACKNOWLEDGE the designer of the pcb. idk, just a personal thing.


Offline Al_Librero

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Re: Is it OK to sell DIY clones?
« Reply #30 on: February 13, 2012, 01:25:41 PM »
3) you can opt to forego No. 2 if you ACKNOWLEDGE the designer of the pcb. idk, just a personal thing.
Furthermore, it is considered proper etiquette for the real designer to receive a commission. The nice thing about them is that chances are, they won't accept it unless you're talking about a large number of units being sold. The gesture and acknowledgment is usually enough. On the other hand, you will be looked down upon if you don't bother to offer and get caught.

Of course, in the end, what matter is whether you care or not.
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Offline Musikerochan

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Re: Is it OK to sell DIY clones?
« Reply #31 on: February 13, 2012, 02:02:14 PM »
Furthermore, it is considered proper etiquette for the real designer to receive a commission. The nice thing about them is that chances are, they won't accept it unless you're talking about a large number of units being sold. The gesture and acknowledgment is usually enough. On the other hand, you will be looked down upon if you don't bother to offer and get caught.

Of course, in the end, what matter is whether you care or not.

true. a small "fee" to the original designer of the circuit is always welcome, like what i do with the Thor. bryan and company receive a small licensing fee for the use of the main circuit block.

other designers OTOH are fine with getting their proper acknowledgment. sabi nga ni jack orman, "Don't want money... Got Money.... Want Recognition". he's cool, that's why he should get the props he deserves :-)

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Offline emil_murillo

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Re: Is it OK to sell DIY clones?
« Reply #32 on: February 13, 2012, 02:24:32 PM »
when we say DIY ► that means you made it for your own use or consumption.. But when you sell it ► then might as well call it DITO (Do It To Others) heheh..

Technically it's not ok selling other's idea because we have an excisting rules for that..

But if you're selling like MI Audio Crunch Box "Clone" (with Improvements like "Presence Knob" or "clipping Selector Switch", etc.).. As long as there's an improvement to the original design then i believe that's ok.. ;)

Offline Taoistguitarist

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Re: Is it OK to sell DIY clones?
« Reply #33 on: February 13, 2012, 02:25:03 PM »
from a business stand point, not worth it... apart from investing money and stuff, the money you make here is not much (if you started 2-3 years ago, yes ... you'd make fast money especially with those cute enclosures. nowadays, the competition is big and the buyers smarter).

you'd have much better income retailing known pedals, keeping your stocks low, making your services and communications topnotch and finally, getting your payment and shipment methods in order.

i agree with this one if you want to earn the extra cash. and you get to try a lot of pedals in the process too.

Offline emil_murillo

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Re: Is it OK to sell DIY clones?
« Reply #34 on: February 13, 2012, 02:33:47 PM »
i agree with this one if you want to earn the extra cash. and you get to try a lot of pedals in the process too.

yes that's a very good point.. ;)

► And also if you are a hobbyist then stay cool and pursue your hobby..
► But if you wanna make it doing business then please be reminded that there are "Intellectual Property Rights" & you don't wanna end up like those "Lawsuit Brands"..

Just a peice of advice.. May nagpapakahirap mag desenyo ► so why can't we???


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Offline quaternotetriplet

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Re: Is it OK to sell DIY clones?
« Reply #35 on: February 13, 2012, 02:55:43 PM »
true. a small "fee" to the original designer of the circuit is always welcome, like what i do with the Thor. bryan and company receive a small licensing fee for the use of the main circuit block.

other designers OTOH are fine with getting their proper acknowledgment. sabi nga ni jack orman, "Don't want money... Got Money.... Want Recognition". he's cool, that's why he should get the props he deserves :-)

http://www.muzique.com/cap_faq.htm
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Offline Musikerochan

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Re: Is it OK to sell DIY clones?
« Reply #36 on: February 13, 2012, 02:58:20 PM »
^ yep. another matter that many would ask also is "what about circuits? is it really ok to clone?" personally, i believe so. why? because circuits function the way they were intended to. semicons usually amplify, diodes usually clip (operative word: usually). nobody can claim property of how their pedals sound because tis merely a product of basic circuit blocks (amplification, biasing, filtering, etc.).

unless they "invent" - say, a new IC, then that's a different ball game. galing nga ng REtro Channel eh, they manufactured their "own" fuzz chip. lol!

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my bad. tis Harry R. Bissell Jr. text lifted from Jack Orman's site. :-)

Offline evhul

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Re: Is it OK to sell DIY clones?
« Reply #37 on: February 13, 2012, 03:10:53 PM »
How about shredhead?

Clone ba yun o hindi? Planning to buy eh.

Offline quaternotetriplet

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Re: Is it OK to sell DIY clones?
« Reply #38 on: February 13, 2012, 03:12:44 PM »
How about shredhead?

Clone ba yun o hindi? Planning to buy eh.
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Offline milzer

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Re: Is it OK to sell DIY clones?
« Reply #39 on: February 13, 2012, 03:13:28 PM »

Offline jmreyes

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Re: Is it OK to sell DIY clones?
« Reply #40 on: February 13, 2012, 03:39:14 PM »
Thread downward spiral in... 3... 2...
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Offline Al_Librero

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Re: Is it OK to sell DIY clones?
« Reply #41 on: February 13, 2012, 04:47:27 PM »
Wag naman. Try and keep things academic. Hindi naman kelangan ipamukha ng ganyan.


How about shredhead?

Clone ba yun o hindi? Planning to buy eh.
I'll elaborate as best as I understand it.

Yes, it is an MI Audio Crunch Box clone (aaminin naman ni MarkV to). It also follows the madbean PCB, with the presence control as a fourth external knob instead of the internal trimpot in the original pedal. MarkV claims to have made some tweaks and there is certainly a noticeable difference in tonality between the original Crunch Box and the Shredhead. I've owned a real one, a clone and the Shredhead. Unfortunately, hindi sabay sabay, so I wasn't able to closely compare the circuits myself.
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Offline r_chino18

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Re: Is it OK to sell DIY clones?
« Reply #42 on: February 13, 2012, 05:06:30 PM »
I only pay people to do work I can't do for myself. So far, I've only ever had one clone made but that was because I couldn't find an actual 80s Guv'nor. It has its purposes and where I was at the time, I didn't have the funds or the time to order from abroad, nor did I know anyone actually selling one. Like Cayle said, as long as no one calls dibs on the design and calls it an invention. I don't know how to solder so I can't just take a madbean schem and make my own pedals.

...but what if we take lots of odd stompboxes, tweak them and put them into huge enclosures personalized with our names on them and charge exorbitantly?

Hmm.. This has been done. Though they don't put them on huge and personalized enclosures. Think Analogman and Keeley modded BOSS pedals.

The thing with that though, you aren't killing BOSS' market since you'll have to buy one BOSS pedal first before you (or they) resell it.

Offline pitongjerome

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Re: Is it OK to sell DIY clones?
« Reply #43 on: February 13, 2012, 05:10:51 PM »
im sure theres someone that has opened it and has compared it to the crunchbox. is it really a clone or may iniba?
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Offline treblinkalovescene

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Re: Is it OK to sell DIY clones?
« Reply #44 on: February 13, 2012, 06:03:43 PM »
Hmm.. This has been done. Though they don't put them on huge and personalized enclosures. Think Analogman and Keeley modded BOSS pedals.

The thing with that though, you aren't killing BOSS' market since you'll have to buy one BOSS pedal first before you (or they) resell it.

I was thinking Cornish just to be a [sausage]. :)) I get you tho.
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Offline gyrome

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Re: Is it OK to sell DIY clones?
« Reply #45 on: February 13, 2012, 06:05:38 PM »
Love pedal eternity burst = tweaked tube screamer
MV shredhead = tweaked mi audio crunchbox

Ayaw ng iba sa shredhead kasi gawang pinoy at mura, cheap daw kumbaga. Saka baka masakit sa mata nila na itabi sa mga mamahaling pedals nila.
 :wave:

Offline Al_Librero

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Re: Is it OK to sell DIY clones?
« Reply #46 on: February 13, 2012, 06:32:38 PM »
Ayaw ng iba sa shredhead kasi gawang pinoy at mura, cheap daw kumbaga. Saka baka masakit sa mata nila na itabi sa mga mamahaling pedals nila.
:wave:
Do you have proof of this? Whipping out the rich vs. poor card in a discussion like this isn't helpful unless it's true. It cheapens all this (no pun intended).

I had one for over a year. And even though hindi naman sobrang mamahalin ng mga pedals ko, it was still the cheapest one on my board. It took care of nearly all my high gain needs.


im sure theres someone that has opened it and has compared it to the crunchbox. is it really a clone or may iniba?
If you mean the Shredhead, there's a thread at FSB about that. I don't want to re-post images here for fear of being thought of as someone out to wreck markv's reputation. I'm still a fan of how he tweaked the Crunch Box, and let's not forget, the Boss DS-1, which I never ever liked until I got to own one that got Brit-Modded.

Poundcake also has first-hand comparisons, if you don't want to take my word for it.
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Offline teleclem

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Re: Is it OK to sell DIY clones?
« Reply #47 on: February 13, 2012, 06:40:13 PM »
but still you buy boutique? ganun din yan,sa labas lng pinas ginawa saka well packaged and well marketed lang. my point is majority ng mga boutique pedals dun din galing. no offense, but judging by the looks of your board,i think you fully support it.

So tell me.. The strymon timeline, eventide space, and modfactor are clones of what pedals exactly?

Offline siore

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Re: Is it OK to sell DIY clones?
« Reply #48 on: February 13, 2012, 07:39:52 PM »
On topic.  Sure.  You don't have to buy it.  Democratic environment, capitalism rules.  No problem selling to a friend who knows exactly what it is.  Selling to someone who has a consumer mindset ("I'm entitled to this or that" "ang mahal naman!!" "bakit ang mura??!") is a whole other thing.

What I'm against is deception and secrecy.  Especially when asked about the circuit, which circuit blocks are changed and why, etc.  When someone avoids these questions, I'm highly suspicious.  You're not even asking for gutshots.  Just small talk about how the circuit came about, and came off his bench.

That goes for both the bottom-scraper DIY builders who piss high with the holier than thou attitude, and the well-versed catch-phrase toting boutique builders who are on premier mag and TGP reviews all the time.

I admit I'm a bit of a boutique pedals reverse snob, mainly because of the ridiculous prices that have all the same reasons to justify them.  It's a friggin' pedal, it shouldn't cost more than a decent amp.  But I acknowledge there's ingenuity in the right places.  Wampler has my respect, along with James Brown of Amptweaker.  Along with the newer modulation and time effects builders, digital or not, I tend to appreciate the technology they are developing.
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Offline region III

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Re: Is it OK to sell DIY clones?
« Reply #49 on: February 13, 2012, 07:43:42 PM »
DIY is for personal use. If you sell/buy it, its not DIY anymore (somebody else did it for you).